Wanted to introduce myself! and ask a few q's

[Silencer]

Hello...this is my first post! I didn't know where to post this, hopefully this is the right forum! I wanted to ask a few questions and introduce myself. I am 18 and just recently finished High School but decided to stay home for 1 semester so I could help my mother who was diagnosed last month with cancer! Luckly she will be back better than ever by next semester so I can start college. Most of my life I have wanted to be a Naval Aviator, I joined the United States Naval Sea Cadet Corps. when I was 15 and went to boot camp at Great Lakes Illinois (Wow was that an experince for a 15 year old)! When I was 17 I had to quit because my nearest unit was 2 1/2 hours away and with a sick mother and 2 year old brother it was hard to make out there all the time. I had planned to go to the Naval Academy but several different career choices entered my mind and I decided it would be best to go to a regular college and make up my mind later if I really wanted to pursue a Navy career.

Well fast foreward a year and I have decided to become a Naval Aviator . So now I'm at a crossroad, I really want to be the best so I can get a jet slot later (yes I know thats pretty ignorant of me to say thats what I want now when I have never flown a plane yet!) but I have always excelled in everything I do! Not because I was the most talented but because I prepared ahead! Now preparing ahead for a competitive Naval Aviation carrer I wanted to pick out a degree that would stand me out from the crowd of regular applicants and give me an edge if I do get to become a SNA! So I was looking at a degree in Aviation Flight from Southern Illinois University. I want to know if this would stand me out from the crowd and help me when I entered API and Primary flight school? I don't want to plunk down an extra 32 grand for a pilot degree, on top of the regular cost of the university! The degree is mainly for people who want to become commerical pilots but I figured it would also help with Naval Aviation!

 Private pilot (AF201) 50 hours of flight and simulation
 Instrument rating (AF206) 42 hours of flight and simulation
 Commercial (AF203, 204, 207A) 120 hours of flight and simulation
 Multi-engine rating (AF207B) 16.5 hours of flight and simulation

Thats alittle over 225 hours of flight time just for my degree! So will this help me or not?!!? Thanks for any reply and I hope to join the wonderful Naval Aviation community soon! By the way, sorry my post was so long

 

[grouch]

Silencer, welcom to AirWarriors! I have a similar degree from Baylor University. I enjoyed the four years I spent there flying along with all the other college goodies. That being said, I wished I had gone to a cheaper school and gotten a more in demand education. There is no doubt in my mind that the degree will help me in API, but will it give me an edge? I doubt it. What will hurt me is the 120+ that will take me years to pay back. Thats really scarry. (I don't scare easy) If I were you, I would go take a couple of flights at the local FBO to see how you like it. Also find out if you can recieve yor degree without the flight time. Something may happen that might keep you from flying and you wouldn't want to be stuck. It happened to more than one friend of mine for various reasons. That being said, DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU NOT TO DO IT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO!!!! If that is were you want to be than grab it by the balls and don't let go!!
Were in Texas (God's Counrty) are you from? If you are in the metroplex the go see LCDR Shannon in Dallas and pick his brain. Best of luck to you. Grouch out.

 

[ghost_ttu]

For all the Dallas people out there LCDR Shannon should return to the office on Monday.

 

[Dave Shutter]

Welcome to the site Silencer...you'll find it a great source of info for whatever it is you want to do in Military Aviation. As for what to study that's up to you. I can say from experience of working with Recruiters that there really is no "regular" applicant. As for an Aviation major, it would definitely be a plus, but it wouldn't necessarily make you a lock vs. someone with 0 flight hours and an Engineering BS. Flying won't be your only job as an Officer. Your degree is just one of many things they look at. Prior fight time is a healthy plus, but it's not the huge edge many people think it is. Some people say too many hours can actually hurt you. In general I would reccomend to be active in your community and participate in lots of sports and clubs as well as get in the best possible shape you can. Also try to establish some type of professional credentials while still a student, be it part time work or some kind of project. All of these are things they will be looking at when you submit your application, not just your degree. Good luck!



Edited by - Dave Shutter on 08/25/2002 21:39:35

 

[ghost_ttu]

in addition to what Dave said MAKE GOOD GRADES!!!! That will bite you in the butt in more than one way if you don't. Believe me I know this.

 

[webmaster]

Welcome to the forum.

I definitely agree with you in the belief that being prepared is an important step in reaching the goals you have set for yourself. But, I have to concur with grouch, and question why you plan on paying for flight training, when you would get all of it for free from the military. The training in the military is geared for those like myself at the time I went through, with no prior flight experience or time. It is a level playing field, and as others on here will probably attest to, there is a wide ranging debate on whether or not those 200 hours will be a help or a hinderance. Personally, I think just being comfortable on the comms, understanding the charts, navigation, FRR, and the instrument would put you ahead of the game. But as grouch said, at what cost?

Many of the IPs in Primary training mentioned that they could not tell the differnce between a student with 200 hours of prior time and a brand new student by FAM6.

At the completion of my military training I took the Military Competency exam, and I recieved all those ratings you just mentioned for under $200 (I forget how much I paid to take the test).

In the end, you still run the risk of for one reason or another NOT being picked up for Naval Aviation. Then, that extra $$ you spent on your degree and flying might come in handy, if that is a career you want to pursue with the airlines.

Well, just some thoughts...

 

[thartley]

As to what degree would help you best, I would say an engineering or physical science degree would help you understand the aerodynamics and systems best. My degree is in history and seem to fall behind a little in those subjects.

 

[grouch]

Silencer, I also wanted to warn you about those published flight times from your school. They are just estimates. Aviation does not go by standard times. It may take you 67 hours to get you private which just means more $$$. When you go on a cross country, the 152 you planned on taking will be down for a 100 hour and you will have to take the brand new 172 sierra at $90 an hour.$$$$ You may have to take a couple of weeks off during finals or something and when you start back your NDB approaches will suck and you will have to put ten more hours working on stuff you already know. $$$$$$ This was par for the course for myself and most of the guys I knew. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I'm just telling you what I wished somebody told me. If they did, I still would have done it anyway but at least I would have known. What ever you do, study hard and get good grades it will pay off. Best of luck, Grouch. Oh by the way, I am grouchy but thats just becuase I'll be in debt for the next twenty years.

 

[Silencer]

Thank you all for the wonderful information! I've lived in Texas all my life! I moved every couple of years from Houstin, lewisville, carrolton, Plano, to now I live at Lake Texoma about 2 hours north of Dallas. Going for that Aviation flight degree isn't set in stone I just wanted to play around with the idea more but like you said I'll definanetly look into alot more now! I always try to have a back-up plan for anything I do (The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry and all that mess!) I'm not sure if I could get a engenering degree or not, I tcan only learn things hat interest me...if it dosen't there is no way I will remember it so I don't think I would do so well with a science degree! You can set a math book down infront of me and tell me to memorize the book and give me a whole year and I still couldn't get the first few pages done! On the other hand tell me to learn everything from a History book or any aspect of a certain car and I can tell you everything you would ever want to know and more in just a couple of days. I just think aviation will be more like studing the car or History and I will be able to learn it with realitive ease! I do very well in Math and Science but its because I pick my battles! I know if it looks hard it problobly is and I study, study, study then try it out. Seems to work but after devoting all of that time to one thing you end up not liking those subjects as much as the ones that interest you. I was also looking at getting my degree in Buisness Administration or Psycology. Don't think that would help me become an aviator but its something that interests me and I could do good in! Plus if the Navy dosen't take me I will have a nice degree to fall back on! Does alot of computer experience help? I have taken all of the computer classes my school had to offer, I have over 10 college hours for CAD and actually designed are new schools band hall along with several pools for people I know! I don't really like doing CAD because if you've ever tried it its a bitch but I'm good at it and they paid me . Computers and me seem to get along very well, I can also learn alot better on a computer than from a person it seems! The only downside is that because of years of staring into the screens of pc's for countless hours my eye sight has diminished from its once perfect 20/20 to a miserable 20/50! I plan to have surgery one day but I have to wait for my eyes to stop growing or it will be a waist of about $3000!

They just opened up a flight school less than half and hour away, I think I will go check that out in the next few days and see what the prices are! My Grandfather flew in the Air Force during WWII and continues to fly recreationaly now despite a horrible crash he had about 10 years ago! My father was in the Air Force for several years, plus living in the two houses beside me and infront I have 3 marines (one is a Warrant officer) and one ex Air Force pilot! So I get alot of lectures and stories about the military from about everyone I know! So I feel pretty at home with this message forum Well again sorry for the long post and all of your replys are greatly appreicated!

 

[Gatordev]

Silencer:

Welcome. It looks like everyone pretty much covered it. Again, I wouldn't recommend you get that degree just to look competitve. A good friend of mine that I went through flight school with did that exact same program at SIU. Yes, he was comfortable in the aircraft while others will still trying find their way, and when it came to RI's, he was well ahead of the curve, but he also has a $60k (or so) loan to pay off. Like John said, you can get all of those ratings on your ticket (except maybe the multi if you go helos or jets) for almost nothing. Now the flip side...do you want to get those ratings? Is it a challenge you want to do to make yourself a better person, or because you've always wanted to do it? Then hell, go for it. But it certainly isn't a prerequisite to make the cut for flight school.

You had mentioned that you haven't even started college yet (glad to hear things are well w/ your mom). If that's the case, and you have a program available to you at the school you want to attend, I would HIGHLY recommend going to the NROTC program and talking w/ them. There's a program that is not mentioned much on this board and it's called College Program. There's actually several different subsets of the College Program, depending on when you enter and what year of school you are in, but basically it allows you to participate and compete for a scholarship and eventually a commission. It's a big plus for someone who realizes they want to join in the middle of an academic year. Anyway, just a recommendation.

 

[mcbride_t_m]

Silencer,
My two cents... for what it´s worth. I also thought that having an aviation oriented degree would push me up the ladder. That ideology is correct to some degree. My degree was in History. Yes, the systems class was harder than if I had an aeronautical engineering degree. But I managed to get through it by studying my ass off. It´s all about drive. I entered flight school with a liberal arts degree, a Private Pilot´s License, and as a prior KC-130 navigator. Which gave me the best edge (obviously not the History degree)? I would say the Private Pilot´s License helped the most. From that intitial training, I knew how to read a chart, to listen to comms, and to do basic maneuvers. Yes, you will learn all of these skills in Primary flight school. However, any edge is still an edge. In all of the services, they now have a program in place before going to Primary that will give you basic instruction in a Cessna up to soloing. It is a weeding out process, but it also a chance to learn the basics before being catapulted into flight school. So... man can I digress, having an aeronautical degree with a commercial rating WILL give you an edge in flight school. You will initially know more than your liberal arts peers. However, and this is a big however, it will only go so far. By Advanced, perhaps even Intermediates, the playing field will be about level. So, is the several thousand dollars for ratings worth it? I would say yes if you have your heart set on jets. Jets have the highest requirements (a 53 NSS for Marines last time I checked). Any edge is a good edge! Don´t bow to the Maverick alter though. Explore all airframes. I am a prop driver and dig it the most. Ultimately, being in the air is what it´s all about. On a side note, I just got my wings in Corpus and received my private, instrument, and commercial ratings for $120.00 through a local FAA examiner. It sure beats paying $30,000 some odd dollars for the same ratings out in the civilian world. Food for thought. Cheers.

 

[Buck]

Silencer: Welcome to the board. It sounds like you got some good advice from all of the other members. It also looks like you have a pretty good plan yourself. Keep it up, and don't quit until the Commander in Chief himself tells you otherwise. By the way, since your trying to go to Nap town, which branch will you be going for, USN or USMC?

m_c_mcbride: As mentioned in the last post, you were a KC-130 navigator. What was the training like for being an aerial navigator? Somewhat similar to the NFO pipeline? What were the highs and lows of this MOS? Was it a kick arse job, or just one you would rather forget?

 

[kent1644]

My two cents now, I would say get an engineering degree, study your ass off for good grades and ace the ASTB. If you want get flight ratings, go to a local airport do it part 61 and not 141 for half the cost. After you get your private pilots license join the Civil Air Patrol, and get your Instrument Rating. The Civil Air Patrol has very nice C-172's and they cost about 20/hr plus fuel. Most units have CFII's in them and they will 9 times out of 10 teach you for free, this will save you a S*** load of money. Another thing is a lot of the pilots in the civil air patrol are former military pilots, and they will teach you the right way to fly.

 

[Adrenaline Rush]

Hey Silencer,,

Right now im pursuing a degree in aeronautical science which will get me all the ratings,,, fortunately my school is only 1700 a semester and it is right down the road..Of course the flight time is where all the money goes..So my hope is to get BDCP and have the navy pay for my ratings,, and why not?? One of the advantages to getting a degree in aer. science (if your not bdcp) is that if you decide you do not want to go into the navy in a couple of years you can go ahead to where the money is, the airlines..for me i had wanted to get to the airlines and that was it..but after watching the people around me (CFI's) become bus drivers, i decided i wanted to be part of something special and distinguish myself from the pack..that being said i would like to know how those who did not get a degree in aviation or have any flight time know that they liked flying or if they could even handle it?? if you come in with all those ratings you know you are a good pilot, and im not saying it means you will be a good navy pilot, but you at least know you can fly an airplane...Kents advice is very good as well, get the private license part 61 and join the CAP..hey kent what do you have to do for the CAP to be able to fly their planes for 20$/hr?? anyways silencer if you have an interest in another degree it would make sense to pursue that and have the navy train you to fly later, as many others are SNA's without an aviation degree..Good Luck with the whole process

 

[JTP]

It's going to be hard to get on w/ the Majors for awhile. You could get on with commuter yeah, but the moneys in the majors and it will probably be hard times for awhile. Delta has 840 pilots on furlough, and they added 40 more to that list last week (Dad is 767-ER Captain). Not too many options w/ an AE degree, as opposed to another major where you can always use it. Do what your heart desires, but I got a BBA and my private liscense at a FBO. I love to fly and figure I'd like to make a career out of it and let the Navy pay for the rest of my training and pay me some decent money at the same time.

If you do get on w/ the majors one day with a AE degree, what happens when you get furloughed? Many airline pilots suggest get a degree you can always use, and get your ratings at your local FBO.

Food for thought..

YEAH COME ON!!