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Viking vs Grumman prop birds: how to count & evaluate traps?

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Hi all,

Have read that initially Viking squadrons had two-pilot roster for every A-model bird, but then the question arose: which carrier trap is whose? How to count? Then, it have been written, the 1310 co-pilot in a starboard chair had been replaced by 1320. Is it true?
The question is: how E-2/C-2 1310 guys/gals are counting their landings, being paired till today?
 

kmac

FLIP Maker
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
The guy at the controls gets credit for the landing.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Yeah, I see, thanks. But how to share this credit between two 1310s in E-2 or C-2? Ok, let's leave CODs alone - I've been told LSOs are quite indulgent to them and credit for one landing could be given to both. But Hawkeyes?
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Well, does it mean that landing of a Hawkeye is always a one-pilot job? Then they both should decide everytime who will land the airplane? Or this is a prescribed decision of OpsO or XO during the preflight brief?
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's decided by the OpsO via his minion the Skeds officer (though ultimately of course the Skipper signs the schedule and thus it's really 'his' decision) who's the pilot and who the CP for any given flight. Ops will factor in who's fat on hours for the month and who's lean, young'uns who need more hours and traps to upgrade their quals, etc. The CAPC (plane commander) can sit pilot or CP.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
It's decided by the OpsO via his minion the Skeds officer (though ultimately of course the Skipper signs the schedule and thus it's really 'his' decision) who's the pilot and who the CP for any given flight. Ops will factor in who's fat on hours for the month and who's lean, young'uns who need more hours and traps to upgrade their quals, etc. The CAPC (plane commander) can sit pilot or CP.
Nice practice, understood. Thanks a lot. Maybe VAW squadrons have less pilots than Viking-equipped VSs had so it is possible for OpsO and eventually CO not to mess that sequences up. Wonder if Viking's 1320 COTAC in starboard seat could land airplane on deck instead of pilot if similar practice had been there...
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Nice practice, understood. Thanks a lot. Maybe VAW squadrons have less pilots than Viking-equipped VSs had so it is possible for OpsO and eventually CO not to mess that sequences up.
The Hoovs went with a COTAC NFO in the right seat a long while back, not least for the hours/traps/quals management. It was discussed with E-2D, for the same reasons and since the AHE can bring up a full mission display in the cockpit, but ultimately it was decided that it was easier to teach a pilot to do some controller stuff than to teach a FO to do copilot stuff.

Managing the flight schedule at sea and balancing hours without pissing anyone off is what makes being Skeds a thankless job.
 

kmac

FLIP Maker
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Technically one could log a copilot (or whatever it's called) landing. There's a code for that in CNAF M-3710.7. I just don't know anyone that would do that.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
It was discussed with E-2D, for the same reasons and since the AHE can bring up a full mission display in the cockpit, but ultimately it was decided that it was easier to teach a pilot to do some controller stuff than to teach a FO to do copilot stuff.
Resembled the helo community approach. By the way, here comes the campaign against the former civil aviation navigators (all Soviets-designed airliners had the NAV in a crew roster) who became pilots after transition to Boeing and Airbus liners. At least two recent crashes of domestical flights in Russia occured with former navs as a captains, both (737 birds) due to stalling on landing, and another one (Tu-134) when drank nav advised to rookie pilot to set wrong course.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I would just like to take this opportunity to brag about all of my traps. Sure they're on surface combatants... but they're still traps darnit!
 
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