VFA or VAQ?

[Carolina Cruizer]

Applying for nfo this year. I want to go tacair. I initially wamted to go F-18s and be a WSO, but my two mentors were both E/A-18 NFOs who transitioned from the prowler to the growler. One was even a test pilot for the growler and then deployed as a EWO with the marines during OIF so he has his gold wings and gold fmf pin. Opportunities like that seem rare, but interesting nonetheless. I know the NFOs at VAQs are often the leaders of the squadrons and even so end up as COs at the TACRONs. Any guidance on helping me decide my ultimate goals for selection?

 

[haka]

You still have to get through the application process, OCS, NIFE, Primary, and get selected for VT-86 before you need to make that decision. You'll have plenty of opportunities to talk in person to pilots and FOs about their experience before that day comes. You're putting the cart before the horse here. Remain open to all of your options because you only have so much influence in the outcome.

 

[nittany03]

I know the NFOs at VAQs are often the leaders of the squadrons and even so end up as COs at the TACRONs. Any guidance on helping me decide my ultimate goals for selection?

TACRON command is most certainly not biased to VAQ. It's a non-flying billet someone needs to fill, and it's a job that does need to be done well, but it's largely filled by folks who didn't get selected for operational command and are getting looked at for things on the level of VT CO. That doesn't mean they suck; by the time you hit that point, there may very well be more qualified people then there are slots for command of gray jets. But on the active side, TACRON is generally a last stop for O-4s and O-5s of all communities pre-retirement. And not just command O-5s; there are 4 O-5s in a TACRON. The CO, XO, and two other Detachment Officers-in-Charge.

Generally, the only folks in TACRON land who are still upwardly mobile are the folks in the reserve augment units and the one person who ends up getting picked to be Commodore of TACGRU ONE. Strangely, active duty TACRONites are generally marking time to retirement, while their reserve Department Head counterparts are still in the game to make O-5, and their reserve front offices are still in the game to pick up O-6 . . .

 

[Brett327]

Applying for nfo this year. I want to go tacair. I initially wamted to go F-18s and be a WSO, but my two mentors were both E/A-18 NFOs who transitioned from the prowler to the growler. One was even a test pilot for the growler and then deployed as a EWO with the marines during OIF so he has his gold wings and gold fmf pin. Opportunities like that seem rare, but interesting nonetheless. I know the NFOs at VAQs are often the leaders of the squadrons and even so end up as COs at the TACRONs. Any guidance on helping me decide my ultimate goals for selection?

Some EWOs even end up as CAGs, carrier COs, base COs, or COCOM commanders.

Both VFA and VAQ communities are great, though I generally think the NFO experience is better in VAQ for various reasons.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

You still have to get through the application process, OCS, NIFE, Primary, and get selected for VT-86 before you need to make that decision. You'll have plenty of opportunities to talk in person to pilots and FOs about their experience before that day comes. You're putting the cart before the horse here. Remain open to all of your options because you only have so much influence in the outcome.

This right here. You haven't even yet applied and/or attended OCS yet. Perhaps focus in on that first, then flight school...

 

[wink]

VAQ NFOs still go to EW school after winging or is that integrated into the RAG? Used to be stand alone at Corey Station. Got to admit, the only reason I didn't have VAQ on the top of my list is that EW school back them was like 3 or 4 months between wings and RAG. I wanted out of Pcola asap and on with my fleet life.

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

VAQ NFOs still go to EW school after winging or is that integrated into the RAG? Used to be stand alone at Corey Station. Got to admit, the only reason I didn't have VAQ on the top of my list is that EW school back them was like 3 or 4 months between wings and RAG. I wanted out of Pcola asap and on with my fleet life.

All VAQ aircrew go to AVEWS at the beginning of their FRS syllabus. I think it's around 6 weeks long but someone feel free to tighten me up on that.

 

[ea6bflyr]

VAQ NFOs still go to EW school after winging or is that integrated into the RAG? Used to be stand alone at Corey Station. Got to admit, the only reason I didn't have VAQ on the top of my list is that EW school back them was like 3 or 4 months between wings and RAG. I wanted out of Pcola asap and on with my fleet life.

Wink,
That’s how it was when I went through in the late 90s. Wings, JAVEWS (Joint Aviation EW School) @Corry Station (3 months), SERE, FRS, Fleet. JAVEWS closed its doors in the early 2000s, and VAQ stood up AVEWS at Whidbey.

 

[nittany03]

And in retrospect, AVEWS (at least as of 2006 and 2010) was not that useful. Memorizing random parametrics you'd have a kneeboard card for in the jet anyway . . . meh. Basically a jobs program for two off-track O-3s and an off-track O-4 who wanted to stay at Whidbey.

Though I do remember the controversy when one of them made OP DH . . .

 

[robav8r]

TACRON command is most certainly not biased to VAQ. It's a non-flying billet someone needs to fill, and it's a job that does need to be done well, but it's largely filled by folks who didn't get selected for operational command and are getting looked at for things on the level of VT CO. That doesn't mean they suck; by the time you hit that point, there may very well be more qualified people then there are slots for command of gray jets. But on the active side, TACRON is generally a last stop for O-4s and O-5s of all communities pre-retirement. And not just command O-5s; there are 4 O-5s in a TACRON. The CO, XO, and two other Detachment Officers-in-Charge.

Generally, the only folks in TACRON land who are still upwardly mobile are the folks in the reserve augment units and the one person who ends up getting picked to be Commodore of TACGRU ONE. Strangely, active duty TACRONites are generally marking time to retirement, while their reserve Department Head counterparts are still in the game to make O-5, and their reserve front offices are still in the game to pick up O-6 . . .

There are several TACRON CO’s that go on to make O6 and major command, but it usually involves significant pain post command like CVN Gator, major overseas staff, afloat staff, you get the idea. More sea time, challenging staff tours, and in places very different than Coronado.

 

[gparks1989]

This is all anecdotal, but VFA double anchor life doesn't seem great. Single seat squadrons always seemed to have a better culture than two seat squadrons. And the fact that there is a single seat version of the jet you fly doesn't seem reassuring either. NFOs are respected in VAQ and I feel like the community culture is just better.

As to the other topic, AVEWS is stupid. Hearing some old guy literally make the beeps and squeaks noises in a basement classroom during the summer in Whidbey while waiting to start Fams is pointless.

 

[HSMPBR]

Hearing some old guy literally make the beeps and squeaks noises in a basement classroom during the summer in Whidbey while waiting to start Fams is pointless.

Stand by to see @ea6bflyr @Flash and @Brett327 triggered

 

[JustAGuy]

This is all anecdotal, but VFA double anchor life doesn't seem great. Single seat squadrons always seemed to have a better culture than two seat squadrons. And the fact that there is a single seat version of the jet you fly doesn't seem reassuring either. NFOs are respected in VAQ and I feel like the community culture is just better.

Not trying to be mean, but this comment is really off point I feel.

End state, some squadrons are great, some are crappy, it has nothing to do with whether NFOs are part of it or not. 2 seat life has it's bonuses, same number of jobs, twice as many people, twice as much money for admins in port, always someone to hang out with on the boat, a sense of 1+1 equaling something more than 1 in the cockpit, etc.

I've seen great single seat squadrons, I've seen absolutely horrible Growler squadrons. It has nothing to do with the platform and everything to do with the people top to bottom, officer and enlisted....

 

[ea6bflyr]

Stand by to see @ea6bflyr @Flash and @Brett327 triggered

Why would any of us be triggered by that? ??‍♂️

 

[ea6bflyr]

Not trying to be mean, but this comment is really off point I feel.

End state, some squadrons are great, some are crappy, it has nothing to do with whether NFOs are part of it or not. 2 seat life has it's bonuses, same number of jobs, twice as many people, twice as much money for admins in port, always someone to hang out with on the boat, a sense of 1+1 equaling something more than 1 in the cockpit, etc.

I've seen great single seat squadrons, I've seen absolutely horrible Growler squadrons. It has nothing to do with the platform and everything to do with the people top to bottom, officer and enlisted....

This 100%. I was in a VAQ squadron with a dysfunctional front office and the squadron sucked. So many problems…2 JOPAs, DHs backstabbing, but hey, my old CO made admiral. Things got way better after 2 changes of command…