Various questions: Life as an officer in aviation.

[Kaminoshi]

Hey everyone. I was recently a final select for NFO. Recently, however, some opportunities fell into my lap career wise. I am looking into all options, because this is probably one of the most important decisions I will make.

Currently I have to choose between being an NFO, being an engineer, and graduate school. I have a lot of insight about work in the latter two options but the Navy is something that I dont know much about in the officer side. I have many contacts who have seen everything from the enlisted side of aviation. I was hoping some of you guys could give me some enlightenment on life as an officer.

First, I understand in addition to your fly job the navy gives you other work to do. Maybe a branch officer job to start. Can anyone explain what it is like doing the basic JO jobs? What kind of work experience will I gain? Will I lead individuals, or is the work simple and menial?

From a chief I was told that life in the Navy is very unpredictable. There will be many times I will find out friday night that I have to work saturday and sunday. This makes it difficult to make plans with family/friends etc. Is this a true statement? I also heard that 3-6 weeks before going to sea during workups there are no days off and everybody is expected to show up for work... and work 12 hour days. Is this true?

Furthermore, he also said that life at sea is work 7 days a week 12+ hours a day. I am not against hard work, but I am just trying to get a picture of what the reality is like being at sea. Is the work at sea different from on the beach? I understand with my first deployment I would be constantly studying (which is fine by me). What else would I be responsible for?

One thing I couldnt really find out through research and contacts is the way officers do sea/shore/disassociated tours. I believe the sea/shore is 2years each. The sea tour should be when I am attached to a squadron that goes out to sea. What would the shore tour be like. I read that a lot become instructors in the FRS. What other kind of things are there to do on this tour? Is it required that one becomes an instructor? I understand that Japan, for example, has no FRS there so are there any shore tour billets for aviation guys there?

I was told that for officers you get put up to a promotion board every X years. If you get passed over for promotion then you have 1 more shot at promotion. If you get passed over again then you are asked to leave. Is this true, and is it a common occurrence? Obviously, as long as you work hard, perform, and dont mess up then you wont have to worry as much.

Lastly, does anybody know much about the Aviation Engineering Duty Officer program? I read about it, but information is somewhat limited. I do know that it requires one to be a pilot or NFO to apply. Does anybody know how competitive this program is? This program is (currently) my goal after my initial commitment in the Navy. This would help bridge the gap between NFO and engineering and set me up for life outside.

I hope that these questions havent been asked repeatedly. I looked around but have not found too many threads regarding these topics and/or did not answer my questions. Although the "day in life of an NFO/pilot" was interesting. Thank you for any help you guys can give.

On a side note: hopefully if I go down to pcola I can get orders to Atsugi. Lived there when I was younger and hope to return in the near future on any platform.

 

[HeyJoe]

On a side note: hopefully if I go down to pcola I can get orders to Atsugi. Lived there when I was younger and hope to return in the near future on any platform.

This thread's for you then!

100410-N-8730P-438 ATSUGI, Japan (April 10, 2010) A pilot assigned to The Gauntlets of Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ 136) climbs in the cockpit of an EA-6B Prowler to pose for pictures during the annual Cherry Blossom Festival at Naval Air Facility (NAF) Atsugi. NAF Atsugi opens its gates to the public during the festival. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Charles Panter/Released)

 

[Kaminoshi]

This thread's for you then!

100410-N-8730P-438 ATSUGI, Japan (April 10, 2010) A pilot assigned to The Gauntlets of Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ 136) climbs in the cockpit of an EA-6B Prowler to pose for pictures during the annual Cherry Blossom Festival at Naval Air Facility (NAF) Atsugi. NAF Atsugi opens its gates to the public during the festival. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Charles Panter/Released)

Definitely loved that thread. I remember those hangars and a few base stories. If I did go navy, I really hope I can get there in the first sea tour. I hear japan is a priority billet (or something of that nature) and the detailers want to fill the spots there ASAP. Plus I hear its more work down there than in the US squadrons so its less desirable. Maybe the planets will line up for me.

 

[Boomhower]

All valid questions. However, you are looking at the "micro" version of the Navy. As far as promotions, follow-on orders, Aviation Engineering Programs, etc. go; just get through your first day of OCS, then worry about the next day. You are too young to be sweating a "life outside", assuming you decide to join the Navy.

You've been in college for the last few years. All you have been thinking about is getting a good job. You are probably thinking that the Navy is a step towards that good job. How about this: The Navy IS a good job. Sure, you will work 12+ hour days on the boat. Sure, you will have to miss a few weddings. Sure, you will have to cancel on the family at the last minute. However, I wouldn't have given up my time in the Navy for all of the things I missed times 10. Do you think that your buddy that's getting married isn't going to understand when you have to miss his wedding to go off and fight terrorists? He will understand, I promise. Also, you'll get a whole new set of buddies that will render your original buddy useless to you.

If you want to go to work as an Engineer, then go do it. If you want to join the service, then go do it. But, don't try to compare the Navy to the job you will have at an Engineering firm or major company. It's comparing apples to asphalt. Not only will they be different jobs, they will be different LIVES.

To answer your main question: Life as an Officer in Aviation is pretty damn good. You get thrown off the pointy end of a boat for a living, chicks are into the uniform, and old men at the table next to you buy your lunch fairly often.

When was the last time you got laid just because you were an Engineering Student? Expect more of that in grad school.

 

[CUPike11]

When was the last time you got laid just because you were an Engineering Student? Expect more of that in grad school.

Nope, it won't even happen then. If you have to walk up to girl and drop the "I'm an engineer" line, I can 100% guaranfreakingdaggonetee you won't get laid. Not just from that girl, but all of her hot ass friends probably too and every girl on campus as word will spread.

Anyways, Boomhower makes good points. I'm going to take this from the civilian perspective as I had an engineering job for 2.5 years (plus 3 summers as their intern as well) before getting into the Navy. Boomhower is exactly right in that you can't compare the two as they are different lives and jobs completely. If you wanna do Navy, go that route, if you wanna be an engineer, then do that.

Engineering is great and I learned a ton from it and the work I did is floating above our heads on a daily basis and I'm proud of that. However, it became a rut. Go to work, stare at the computer and do the same crap, talk to some of the same boring people, eat the same lunch, go to the gym, get home, watch tv and repeat the next day. I got to the point where I got disgruntled because I wasn't being challenged. No one trusted me w/ anything yet because I hadn't "proven" myself (read: I wasn't a senior engineer w/ 10+ yrs of experience). I sought after the challenges, but no one wanted to give me that. So after being laid off, I decided it was time for a career change. Fast forward one year later and I'm in Pensacola awaiting the start of API and couldn't be happier. Everyday is different and gives me a chance to learn something I didn't know. I've met amazing people who have become mentors/friends, which is something I didn't find in the engineering world. You went to work and went home....there was really no bonding or getting to know each other. You worked w/ each other and that was it.

I'm VERY young in regards to the process but look forward to what the next 10 years are about to bring. I can definitely say though, that the stuff I've already had a chance to do and accomplish, my friends who work civilian jobs are jealous and can't believe that we get paid to do what we do through training.

Just my .02. Not everyone's experience will be like that, but just wanted to shed some light from the other side.

Go with your heart and what you want.

 

[KCOTT]

Also, you'll get a whole new set of buddies that will render your original buddy useless to you.

This is so true. I found myself partying harder and overall enjoying weekend festivities more than I did with my old college buddies, even while still in college. Sometimes I go back home and find my non-Navy friends kind of lame when we go out to the bars. Met some great people and I've only been 18 months in. I'm sure it's more of a shit show once you finally get out of the training pilot and hit some ports up.

 

[60flyer]

When was the last time you got laid just because you were an Engineering Student? Expect more of that in grad school.

Oh come on now...intelligence is single most attractive thing a guy can offer

 

[P3 F0]

First, I understand in addition to your fly job the navy gives you other work to do. Maybe a branch officer job to start. Can anyone explain what it is like doing the basic JO jobs? What kind of work experience will I gain? Will I lead individuals, or is the work simple and menial?

Both. Hard to explain what a typical JO job is like, but you'll probably be working in either the admin, intel, ops, maintenance, training, or tactics department. You'll cycle through several of those on a typical tour. In some of those jobs you'll have some E's under you. In others you won't.

From a chief I was told that life in the Navy is very unpredictable. Is this a true statement?

Yes, depending on how you look at it. You make it seem like it's a bad thing. Why?

I also heard that 3-6 weeks before going to sea during workups there are no days off and everybody is expected to show up for work... and work 12 hour days. Is this true?

Keep in mind that this may be true for ship's company, but not so much as an aviator, where you are part of a squadron and not ship's company. Also keep in mind that you'll probably be doing something work-related most every day, with the occasional down day or port call thrown in the mix. Also keep in mind not every aviator job is carrier-based. I'm not a carrier aviator, and the only time I've ever had to work over 9 hours/day every day for weeks on end is in Tampastan when the war kicked off, and Afghanistan.

Is the work at sea different from on the beach?

Yes.

I understand with my first deployment I would be constantly studying (which is fine by me). What else would I be responsible for?

Whatever ground job (Ops, Mx, Training... see above) and collateral duties (SDO, Safety Officer, line-of-sight tasking, etc) you have.

The sea tour should be when I am attached to a squadron that goes out to sea.

Again, not true for VP and VQ squadrons.

What would the shore tour be like.

Can't possibly answer that.

I read that a lot become instructors in the FRS. What other kind of things are there to do on this tour?

Typical shore tours: Staff job in D.C. (OPNAV/Program Office/Pentagon Office Lottery), School (Staff/War College/NPS), D.C. Agency (CIA/DTRA/NGA/other 3-letter agencies), Fleets/CINCS (PacFlt, NavEur, CENTCOM, 5th Flt, etc) and tons of other options. Glad you asked? Because I'm pretty sure none of that means anything to you.

Is it required that one becomes an instructor?

No, but it is career-enhancing.

I understand that Japan, for example, has no FRS there so are there any shore tour billets for aviation guys there?

There are organizations over there that would love to have you. See PacFlt, above

If you get passed over again then you are asked to leave. Is this true, and is it a common occurrence?

Didn't used to be very common but is becoming a bit more so nowadays with the bad economy and the glut from the war. If you're a LT and below, twice failing to promote will get you kicked out. For LCDR, you will either be selected for retention until 20, or be tagged for a continuation board at some point, which will review your performance and retain or boot you (I've never heard of the latter, but it is a possibility)

Obviously, as long as you work hard, perform, and dont mess up then you wont have to worry as much.

True to an extent, but timing is everything. I've seen guys fail to make O-4 that I'm guessing would have made it easily at any other point in the last century.

 

[FlyBoyd]

Oh come on now...intelligence is single most attractive thing a guy can offer

Hmmmmm...funny....I thought it was my huge------bank account

 

[60flyer]

Hmmmmm...funny....I thought it was my huge------bank account

Ahhhh bribery - what a charmer you must be <----just kidding

 

[HAL Pilot]

Oh come on now...intelligence is single most attractive thing a guy can offer

I'm intelligent. Should I bring the cond.....er...umm.....wine?

 

[60flyer]

I'm intelligent. Should I bring the cond.....er...umm.....wine?

lol...wow

Actually, if memory serves me right...I offered to buy you dinner/a drink in Manila - not my fault you weren't in the country. Alas, my age limit is 15 years older :sly_125:

 

[HAL Pilot]

Ouch! Stabbed right through the birthday......:icon_zbee

 

[gstapes12]

I think I might be able to provide LIMITED knowledge on AEDO's...

I'm working for NAVAIR this summer in the 'engineering deptarment' of an acquisition program. Most of the program managers (on the military side) around here are AEDO's... my boss in the engineering dept. is a retired AEDO... Let me assure you that you won't be doing any engineering... you'll be managing programs (read: looking pretty in your uniform while everyone else does the real work), dealing with stupid people, fighting government bullshit etc. The only AEDO's who ever really advance past Captain or Commander are those who manage the F-18, F-35 and now the UAV programs. Most others retire after managing a program because their careers have grinded to a halt. THIS IS INFO I HAVE RECIEVED FROM MY BOSS AND OBSERVING THE WAY THINGS WORK. I'M SORRY IF I OFFEND ANY CURRENT OR FORMER AEDO'S.

Again, it seems like you already have your hair on fire to 'engineer' things and if you're already looking past the pilot/nfo portion of your career to being an AEDO, I would say don't get too excited... it's not what you think it is. I don't know if you've had any internship experience, but once you start working for a company as an engineer, you'll realize that it's not school anymore, like CUPike11 said it's eating lunch with the same boring people, staring at your computer screen, using google - not your degree - to answer engineering questions etc.

Also, who gives a crap how long you have to work in a day... isn't having the best job in the world worth some hard work? And how the hell did you get a Final Select without asking these questions before hand... not trying to bust your balls but it seems like these would be important questions to ask your recruiter before you sign your life to the navy rather than asking a bunch of sarcastic/salty vets and pro-recs who don't know what they're talking about (read: me).

Go do engineering and leave the flying/nfoing to the kids who can't see themselves doing anything else.

 

[zippy]

Oh come on now...intelligence is single most attractive thing a guy can offer

Even if so, when was the last time you went prowling for intelligence?