VANCE decision for a Marine

[danthaman]

Having gone through Vance recently, I can say that there definitely were annoying aspects of the AF, but it's not nearly as bad as most people depict it. I'm not having any problems transitioning back to Navy training, neither is anybody else here that I know of that went to Vance. It's all about your attitude. You can choose to hate it before you even get there and be miserable, or you can try to enjoy it despite some of the circumstances. The T-6 was fun, it was great training and I met a lot of great guys that I still keep in touch with and probably will for a long time.

I can say that so far, the major differences I have seen are that the Air Force does everything by the book. Everything has a rule and a procedure. Especially with emergencies. It seems the Navy tells you a few things you must do or not do and then leaves it up to you to use good headwork. To put it simply, the Navy trusts it's pilot's more to think for themselves and make good decisions.

One major difference that I did not like is the attitude of a lot of Air Force fighter pilots. Anyone who's been around AF fighter pilots, I'm sure can vouch for this. A lot of them can really act like arrogant tools. It seems like jet pilots in the Navy / Marine Corps are generally a lot cooler.

 

[BACONATOR]

Having gone through Vance recently, I can say that there definitely were annoying aspects of the AF, but it's not nearly as bad as most people depict it. I'm not having any problems transitioning back to Navy training, neither is anybody else here that I know of that went to Vance. It's all about your attitude. You can choose to hate it before you even get there and be miserable, or you can try to enjoy it despite some of the circumstances. The T-6 was fun, it was great training and I met a lot of great guys that I still keep in touch with and probably will for a long time.

I can say that so far, the major differences I have seen are that the Air Force does everything by the book. Everything has a rule and a procedure. Especially with emergencies. It seems the Navy tells you a few things you must do or not do and then leaves it up to you to use good headwork. To put it simply, the Navy trusts it's pilot's more to think for themselves and make good decisions.

One major difference that I did not like is the attitude of a lot of Air Force fighter pilots. Anyone who's been around AF fighter pilots, I'm sure can vouch for this. A lot of them can really act like arrogant tools. It seems like jet pilots in the Navy / Marine Corps are generally a lot cooler.

I don't know about you, but that seems to me to be a VERY important aspect of the training/culture to consider.

I would rather not have to call base for permission to use the piss-tube in flight. Pilots SHOULD be allowed the discretion and decision-making ability that is necessary in flight to complete a mission. The hand-holding is a little ridiculous in the AF.

 

[NozeMan]

Having gone through Vance recently, I can say that there definitely were annoying aspects of the AF, but it's not nearly as bad as most people depict it. I'm not having any problems transitioning back to Navy training, neither is anybody else here that I know of that went to Vance. It's all about your attitude. You can choose to hate it before you even get there and be miserable, or you can try to enjoy it despite some of the circumstances. The T-6 was fun, it was great training and I met a lot of great guys that I still keep in touch with and probably will for a long time.

I can say that so far, the major differences I have seen are that the Air Force does everything by the book. Everything has a rule and a procedure. Especially with emergencies. It seems the Navy tells you a few things you must do or not do and then leaves it up to you to use good headwork. To put it simply, the Navy trusts it's pilot's more to think for themselves and make good decisions.

One major difference that I did not like is the attitude of a lot of Air Force fighter pilots. Anyone who's been around AF fighter pilots, I'm sure can vouch for this. A lot of them can really act like arrogant tools. It seems like jet pilots in the Navy / Marine Corps are generally a lot cooler.

This will be the key for anyone that heads out to Vance. It's gotta be intimidating to get selected for it, especially after how much it is bashed here. You can look at it this way: Vance has to be good training if it builds the foundation for AF pilots. You just have to be ready to change your mindset when it is time to transition back to the Navy/Marine Corps way of doing things. It'll be your responsibility to adapt.

 

[Gatordev]

Hmm this got me thinking, when will the navy start using T-6s in primary?

Do a search, it's been discussed recently. The date is fluid, and there's lots of issues still going on (many of them having NOTHING to do w/ Whiting or Corpus), but the first on will probably show up in the next 6-8 months.

 

[danthaman]

You just have to be ready to change your mindset when it is time to transition back to the Navy/Marine Corps way of doing things. It'll be your responsibility to adapt.

That's exactly how I see it, couldn't have said it better myself Sir. And it really isn't that difficult of a transition. I think you can pick up really quickly what the Navy/MC do better and what they expect of you.

 

[e6bflyer]

You can choose to hate it before you even get there and be miserable, or you can try to enjoy it despite some of the circumstances.

Great advice for those who are voluntold....you are still getting paid to fly after all.

But, given the choice, go Navy!

 

[FLY_USMC]

If I was to take my time at Vance and compare it to my time at Meridian, I would honestly have to say the Chair Force seems to have more functions that involve beer than we EVER had at Meridian. Now I must caveat that with at the majority of the functions, it was my Marine Corps and Navy colleagues that were tearing it up. Can we even have a beer in the squadron on Fridays after the flight schedule is done? That was an absolute must when I was in Primary.

One of these days I guess we'll all realize that we should probably ball up and not spread the horrors and attrocities of Primary and Advanced openly around a public forum where impressionable young minds...like my own....will soak up as fact 100% of what we say, and possibly show up at site A or B and ruin their time there based on assumptions.

Kind of like the JDizzle, heard nothing but horrible things about him on here and from other studs, yeah, he sucks. BUT, I can honestly say when I flew with him, he only yelled when I really f'd up and as long as I did what he said, he stayed cool. For the guys he really rode, I'm sorry you suck so bad.

 

[Scoob]

One of these days I guess we'll all realize that we should probably ball up and not spread the horrors and attrocities of Primary and Advanced openly around a public forum where impressionable young minds...like my own....will soak up as fact 100% of what we say, and possibly show up at site A or B and ruin their time there based on assumptions.

Never!!! "Live by the gouge, die by the gouge." Always has been a crucial skill of Naval Aviation to develop the ability to detect what's worth taking on board, and what needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Kind of like the JDizzle, heard nothing but horrible things about him on here and from other studs, yeah, he sucks. BUT, I can honestly say when I flew with him, he only yelled when I really f'd up and as long as I did what he said, he stayed cool. For the guys he really rode, I'm sorry you suck so bad.

Times have changed.....he yelled at me even when I was rocking it out!

 

[danthaman]

Can we even have a beer in the squadron on Fridays after the flight schedule is done? That was an absolute must when I was in Primary.

Yes, turning the beer light on in the squadron on Friday's was always a good time. It really surprised me at first that the Air Force of all places allowed and encouraged that. I wonder how long that tradition will survive in this PC world now. Track selects were always a good time too.

I have to agree with you also that the Vance gouge on here is overwhelmingly negative. I had a pretty bad attitude when I first got to there simply because I had heard nothing but horrible things about it. But after the 15 day program was over I didn't mind it so much.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying that I think everyone should volunteer for Vance over Whiting or Corpus, but it was really not that bad. Some painful moments but I enjoyed most my time there.

 

[HuggyU2]

So, to summarize this thread: you should probably go to Vance.

Seriously, A4's comments are pretty good overall.
The point about joint training being the future is also well taken, IMO.

But all the whining about working 12 hour days, 6 days a week, crappy location, blah, blah,... throw that out and make your decision on more mature reasons. If you don't want to spend 6 months at Vance due to its location, then you're REALLY not going to like some of the places that Uncle Sam will send your Marine unit. I spent 4 years in Del Rio, considered by most the worst location of any DoD pilot training base. I had a blast. Rather than crying in my breakfast every morning, I met locals, and found some great things to do while there: Mexico, windsurfing, weekend road trips, etc...
Yes, it will be USAF culture, like it or not.
Good luck in your choice.

 

[Purdue]

Yes, turning the beer light on in the squadron on Friday's was always a good time. It really surprised me at first that the Air Force of all places allowed and encouraged that. I wonder how long that tradition will survive in this PC world now. Track selects were always a good time too.

I was there in 2006... in two different flights.

My first flight never lit the Beer light that I was aware of, although I did occassionally see the beer stock was depreciated after all students left for the day.

My second flight lit the beer light all of two times... And the studs were pretty uncomfortable from what I saw. Since even then the IP's didn't take off the "I'm a Dick" hats.

If you don't want to spend 6 months at Vance due to its location, then you're REALLY not going to like some of the places that Uncle Sam will send your Marine unit. I spent 4 years in Del Rio, considered by most the worst location of any DoD pilot training base...

Huggy, why exactly should someone train to be uncomfortable? The argument that "Life is gonna suck at some point, so if presented with a choice.. always choose the one that will make you the most miserable!" makes no sense. Honestly, I know I can be put in shitty places... and life isn't always dandelions and butterflies... but thats no reason I can't enjoy life now while I have the chance... that's kind of the point! Take the good when it comes, handle the bad when it's here. But why invite shitstorms to fly overhead at all times?

Under your logic, you will eventually be called up for an IA in your career... so why not go out of your way to hunt one down and volunteer tomorrow?

Annoying bullsh#t doesn't always make you stronger or better. Sometimes it's just annoying bullsh#t. I personally go out of my way to do things I want/like to do. Now, if I HAVE to do something, I'll do that happily... but I can't promise I wont grumble once or twice.

 

[HuggyU2]

My point is Vance doesn't suck, and they need to look at it in that light. Maybe growing up in New York City doesn't prepare you for Small Town USA. Maybe Pensacola is more "desirable". That's fine. Complaining about where you go to pilot training is like winning an all expense paid vacation to Atlantic City, and bitching you didn't win the Grand Prize to Vegas.
And comparing UPT at Vance to an IA billet,... well, don't try to extrapolate my logic to that derivation. Apples and oranges.
Maybe we should start a thread to determine if having to go to Whiting "really sucks", and going to Corpus is the "great deal".

 

[T37Driver]

Vance was not my first choice, it was my second choice after Moody AFB. However, I was sent to Vance and the world doesn't end if that happens. I had a blast at Vance and I had a blast flying the Tweet. (Never flew the Texan but it should be even more dynamic).
I am eventually going to try for an exchange tour with the USAF as a Viper Driver, Eagle Driver or even flying the Raptor.
(This has nothing to do with me wanting to be an F-16 pilot ever since I was a kid:icon_mi_1).
I got done in 5 months and 2 days.
12 hour days didn't last that long and if you're going to bitch about hard work...Get out of this business.
I got three "sandbag" flights in a T-38 upon completion and it was a blast.
Some of the FAIPs were cool as hell and most of the instructors (Though a**holes at work) were very helpful and approachable after hours or in town.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Maybe we should start a thread to determine if having to go to Whiting "really sucks", and going to Corpus is the "great deal".

Both suck....but are less evil than Vance.