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USN Rotary to Airline Transition?

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
just get that 737 type rating......you are golden.
you will probably have 1500 hrs by the time you are active 6 years, or close to it , as I did, then go for the 737 type rating......got my commercial right out of flight school with the FAA competency test....great gouge out there. once you get your ATP and have the 737 type....you are looking good, hope you like airports!

good luck
No.

The only thing a 737 or type rating without any hours flying the plane shows is that you are trainable in multi-piloted transport category aircraft. In other words - not a hell of a lot.

You need total time, multi time and PIC to get hired at a national or regional airline.

You need a AMEL, ATP minimums and a pulse to get hired at a regional airline.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
No.

The only thing a 737 or type rating without any hours flying the plane shows is that you are trainable in multi-piloted transport category aircraft. In other words - not a hell of a lot.

You need total time, multi time and PIC to get hired at a national or major airline.

You need a AMEL, ATP minimums and a pulse to get hired at a regional airline.
Fixed my post - too late to edit.
 

rotorhead1871

UH-1N.....NAS Agana, Guam....circa 1975
pilot
ahh...but you are in a good position, you have at least 1500 TT to get the ATP, your PIC time will come . or get into a reserve unit flying P3's like I did. get your PPC and there you are.

good luck, or just go for FEDEX, UPS or Evergreen, if you have interest.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
ahh...but you are in a good position, you have at least 1500 TT to get the ATP, your PIC time will come . or get into a reserve unit flying P3's like I did. get your PPC and there you are.

good luck, or just go for FEDEX, UPS or Evergreen, if you have interest.
UPS and FedEx are just as if not more competitive than the others. There are plenty of people with thousands of fixed wing hours waiting for a call from them. There is a path for helo dudes, but it's NOT "just get a 737 type" and show up. You can't even get the right ATP without FW ME time.
 

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
And now that SWA doesn't require it anymore, the 737 type is a pretty expensive and unnecessary resume bullet, especially if you don't even have the fixed wing mins to get an ATP along with it.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
ahh...but you are in a good position, you have at least 1500 TT to get the ATP, your PIC time will come . or get into a reserve unit flying P3's like I did. get your PPC and there you are.

good luck, or just go for FEDEX, UPS or Evergreen, if you have interest.
As was said by Treetop Flyer, FedEx and UPS are more competitive than any major pax carrier. It's not a "just go to" thing.

Evergreen went out of business 12/31/2013. There ain't no going there anymore. They had shitty pay and work rules anyway. A real bottom feeder.

Reserve P-3 squadrons are few and far between now too with most having been decommissioned. Same with most grey aircraft reserve squadrons. Not an option for most guys getting out now.

You have a habit of posting way out of date information like you know what you're talking about, not only here but in Navy career advise threads too (i.e. intell officer thread saying 1 of 1 fitreps are good career enhancers). Your information is waaaayyyyy out of date, worthless and incredibly bad. I realize my active duty info is way out of date and this is why I don't give Navy career advise (other than to GTFO and Go To The Show). It's time you realized the same thing.
 
Last edited:

banana380

Member
pilot
HAL Pilot said:
No.

The only thing a 737 or type rating without any hours flying the plane shows is that you are trainable in multi-piloted transport category aircraft. In other words - not a hell of a lot.

You need total time, multi time and PIC to get hired at a national or regional airline.

You need a AMEL, ATP minimums and a pulse to get hired at a regional airline.
I agree that the 737 type rating won't do much for getting on at a regional, none of them even fly that large of an aircraft anyway.

For military ATP minimums you need 750TT, 250 FW PIC, and 50 ME. This program is bridging the gap for rotary guys in that we need 250 FW PIC (flight school and a few rentals leave me with 16...). They ask you to use your GI bill to get the multi add on and up to a total of 25 ME hours. They'll pay up to $23K toward the time building. They also give you $15K for signing on, payable on your first day at Envoy, and ask for a 2 year commitment, if you break it you pay the full amount up to the first year then pro-rated until the 2 year mark. They allow the last 25 ME to be flown with them for your R-MIL-ATP.

None of the other regionals are offering the bridge program that I'm aware of. Several are offering sign-on bonuses if you already have the minimums, and offer free ATP-CTP classes. Weed through the hate and discontent on APC and there is a decent amount of info about all of them. Seems that they all kinda suck, but pick the one closest to home so you don't have to commute and it sucks less.

Pay-wise from their info packet: 1st year- $43K = 28K+15K bonus, 2nd year = $36K, 3rd year = 55 (upgrading to captain at 2.5), 4th year CA = ~$75K until flow to American at 6 years. At American, 1st year FO = $97K, 2nd year = $140K and on up. American has one of the highest pay scales, I think United is around the same. There are pay scales on APC, it's roughly the hourly rate x 1000 for your annual salary.
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
...until flow to American at 6 years. At American, 1st year FO = $97K, 2nd year = $140K and on up. American has one of the highest pay scales, I think United is around the same. There are pay scales on APC, it's roughly the hourly rate x 1000 for your annual salary.
Those numbers are a little high, I think it would be more accurate and conservative to say (at least at AA) that pay would be:

1st year: $77.29 (Group II pay Jan16) x 76 (Short call guarantee) x 12 months = $70,488.48 plus $11,278 (16% 401k contribution)
2nd year: $119.28 (Group II pay Jan17) x 76 (Short call guarantee) x 12 months = $108,783 plus $17,405 (16% 401k contribution)
3rd year: $143.76 (Group II pay Jan18) x 76 (Short call guarantee) x 12 months = $131,109 plus $20,977 (16% 401k contribution)


Extra pays like per diem and international override depending on bid status (airframe, base, domestic/international) may net you between $0-$1000 extra a month including the per diem (Time Away From Base, TAFB). How much you fly on reserve varies greatly by time of year, airframe and manning, but during my first year on the 7576 I had 6 week periods where I didn't fly and didn't make any extra pay. Switching airframes for instance has opened up other opportunities, such as over guarantee (flying on days off) and premium pay (again flying on days off when company burnt through all available reserve pilots). Of those two, you can't really bank or count on them at AA. We have probably the worst system in place for making extra money, hopefully we can get our shit together and adopt a better system like Delta with the next contract, but I am not holding my breath on that. :rolleyes:

It took me 18 months to become a line holder (and I just got pushed back in seniority and couldn't hold it for the month of September dang it :mad:), then you have the flexibility of flying more hours and the "hourly rate x 1000" becomes more applicable. Average monthly line values at AA for 737/320 range between 80-83 hours. After you get your line you can drop/trade/pickup trips to adjust. You have some high time guys that fly 120 or so, but they have the seniority to take advantage of the system and can cherry pick dead head trips and or trips with high pay and credit (one leg of flying 1.3 but paid 5 hours for example). Other items like selling back vacation can also impact the pay. Here is an example of what gaining a little bit of seniority and having a busy summer where crew skeds needs pilots and premium trips are available:

$135.51 (Group II yr 3) x 116 hours (76 SC guarantee plus 30 hours premium and 10 hours vacation sold back) + $850 TAFB/Override = $16,569 monthly gross

I think my peers at the other majors with better premium pay systems are doing much better than that. But it still serves as an example of how you can work the system. When I look at the schedules of REALLY senior guys, or fly with high time senior Captains, it's amazing how they can work the system and make insane amounts of money. A brand new 787 CA I spoke with at recurrent training had his best pay month ever at AA and grossed over $30k for the month. :eek:

Going into my second year I have consistently averaged above SC guarantee, and when I held a line for three months I averaged 95-101 hours paid each of those months. Some of that is I chose to fly more hours and also I lived in base and could pick up last minute premium trips. Over summer I switched back to short call to take advantage of premium and that I could get my top SC pick of schedules where I got all the weekends off. Anyways, just an example of how you can change your income within the existing system, but it may take 6 months to a year to gain sufficient seniority to take advantage of it.

Disclaimer, we are getting PBS here at AA and will be fully transitioned over beginning of 2017, theoretically the system doesn't require as much reserve manning so it may accelerate the timeline that it takes for you to gain enough seniority to hold a line (pure speculation on my part, and I am curious to see the results of the PBS runs in my bid status at other bases).

The other end of the spectrum of course guys that fly the bare minimum or are also actively drilling with a reserve unit and have to juggle their schedule. Anyways, I would say it is more conservative to expect that you would get paid guarantee for the respective airline's reserve category that you would start off in (though I understand that may not apply at SWA/JETBLUE and others).

I didn't include profit sharing, since honestly I think that is a moving target and while I have seen the math on the union side showing how to calculate it, I wouldn't include it in any conservative estimate on projected earnings.

As for the flow, well, I don't have any experience with that, nor advice to give. But we at AA are getting our steady group of pilots flowing to us each month, so it is happening. Fortunately for off the street hires, that is picking up now that all the furlough recalls are completing in September. So we should see quite a few more off the street showing up at AA.
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
Webmaster.. That sounds like work.. I pulled off 122 hours pay last month, flew 3 out and backs.. If you want max pay for least flying then boxes is where it's at! I have been a 757 Captain for a year and still only have about 250 hours in type!
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Webmaster.. That sounds like work.. I pulled off 122 hours pay last month, flew 3 out and backs.. If you want max pay for least flying then boxes is where it's at! I have been a 757 Captain for a year and still only have about 250 hours in type!
Awesome! Unfortunately, I was working too hard when I was holding a line back in FEB-APR (then again one of those months I had a Curacao the next a Grand Cayman line, and I lounged around on the beach drinking frosty beverages, those were two relaxing months!). I went back to short call reserve for summer, averaging 4 days flying on call outs. And another 4-5 premium days. Overall about 4-9 days per month going into work in May through July.

Now August is my vacation month, outside of 3 days recurrent that overlapped end of July and beginning of August, I have been off the entire month and will only be available for the last two days of the month. We had a nice Hawaii vacation that I am still recovering from as I wander aimlessly around my house.

Mind you, I aspire to be like you saavy captains when I grow up! :)

There are a couple captains and FOs in my bid status that take advantage of special qual cities, they routinely get displaced for training. So many schemes....
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
I was going to say that is an upgrade from peanuts to cashews - but it is substantial. Combined with either SelRes drill pay or retirement pay, it will make it easier for rotorheads to jump to the airlines.
18 months ago one of my peers started at one of the AA regionals and made 17k his first year. No bonus, or anything like that.

The pay raises we're starting to see at the regionals are very substantial. It's good to finally see progress in the right direction for pilots.
 
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