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User Fees

HUDcripple

Registered User
pilot
I think most of their points are common sense and not controversial, like decommission obsolete equipment, but the controversial point that relates to user fees is "Allocate costs fairly among users". This means shift costs currently paid by airlines to corporate and private jets, because under the current system the airlines are paying more than their fair share of the costs. So they are subsidizing the other users that pay less than their fair share.

The question is though what is each user's fair share. Your share can increase with your payload or number of seats, so larger planes pay more than smaller ones, or you could say that it doesn't matter how big or small the plane is, they all use the same amount of ATC resources. GA would argue for the former, airlines for the latter.

Once you get past the "make it better and less expensive" part, there aren't a whole lot of non-controversial parts. A few samples:

Decommission obsolete equipment and procedures
Some ground-based navigation equipment (e.g., non-directional beacons in the contiguous United States) is no longer compatible with a modern air navigation system and should be eliminated, along with flight procedures based on that equipment.


Well, those NDBs aren't obsolete to pilots who fly out of fields where that is the only NAVAID, and it is all that is needed to get through an overcast layer. GPS is the long-term solution, but the FAA needs to design the approaches, and an IFR-certified GPS is pretty expensive for an old bug-smasher that just wants to get to VFR-on-top. There are a lot of other technology issues that are cheap to add to a 777, expensive to add to a 172.

Rationally segregate different types of aircraft to optimize traffic flow
Different aircraft types operate at different altitudes and speeds. Large transport aircraft generally fly faster and higher than smaller, noncommercial aircraft. Combining various types means that they all fly at the slower speed, reducing flows into an airport or on a route. Segregation could recapture capacity that is lost today by restricting speeds.


Assume the airlines will want first pick of flight levels. Of course, if it's bumpy or stormy there, they will want to invade someone else's section. ATC already tries to keep everyone moving as fast as possible.

Allocate costs fairly among users
Each user of the system drives certain costs. Users should expect to pay for the costs they drive, but should not subsidize others’ use of the system. The cost of services that benefit the general public, as opposed to the flying public, should be covered by the General Fund.


This is the basis of their entire argument; there are "good" planes and "bad" planes. What complete BS. The entire transportation system of the US benefits the public, and it is almost all funded by fuel taxes. Even the segment of GA that is just rich dudes flying for fun creates an economic impact. No one talks about charging a guy in a sports car as much to use a highway as a semi, and no one asks a guy going fishing to contribute as much as a supertanker to go out through the marked channel.

Does an industry that dumps its pension obligations on the federal government really claim to be the "good" guys.

There are very good arguments posted against this on the AOPA and EAA websites, but some of the more compelling reasons are:

The ATC system is designed around the airlines, GA uses the excess capacity. A small field may have a control tower to handle the 2-3 airline flights a day, it is unfair to charge private planes to use a tower they don't really need. The TRACONs and Class B around big cities are to handle the airlines, GA tends to use nearby feeder airports, but needs to talk to ATC to get under the Class B.

A user-fee system is expensive to track and bill, so is inefficient. Fuel taxes and ticket fees are easy to manage.

The airlines also want a private board of trustees to run ATC instead of the FAA, and the majority of the seats would represent the airlines. How helpful.

The ATA claims to be proposing a "fairer" system, but they are an advocacy group. The airlines don't pay millions for fair, they pay to promote the airline point of view.
 

SemperGumbi

Just a B guy.
pilot
^^^^^^^ Very well put, and well thought out post. I applaud you for being able to put in words what (probably) many of us thought.

Nice!!!!
 

snake020

Contributor
What happens when the government deregulates?

What happened to the airlines after 1978? Anyone remember Pan Am and Eastern Airlines?

Anyone remember that S&L scandal in the late 80s?

Who else was in CA when PG&E went bankrupt and the phrase "rolling blackouts" entered the mainstream? Anyone hear of Enron?

Bad idea, if it's not broken why fix it?
 

joboy_2.0

professional undergraduate
Contributor
Howdy all,

I keep reading about the FAA and how they want to impose user fees to fund the ATC system vice keeping everything supervised by Congress (the way things work now). There is quite a bit of debate on how exactly the FAA and ATC system should be funded. From what I have learned so far, the airlines are in favor of a user fee system. Basically you'd pay $XX for a weather brief, $XX for shooting a practice instrument approach, etc. Pay as you go type thing, eventually across the board for everyone using US airspace. Maybe the cropduster guys who operate out of private strips and don't use radios can still fly for free under this new "user fee" idea.

I personally think that my tax dollars have been doing a fine job at funding the FAA and the ATC system. While I am currently too busy to really have time to fly GA these days (flight school is a *****), I have flown on my own in the past and look forward to a day in the future when I will have the opportunity to do so again. Personally, I'd rather not pay for each practice approach, weather brief, call to Center, or anything else. Congress has done a fine job at providing a safe ATC system in America and I don't see why we'd need to convert to a fee based system.

What are the opinions of you guys who fly for the airlines? As more of a general aviation guy, I'm all for keeping things like they are now. I'm interested to hear from someone who can provide some real answers as to why we need "user fees" to fund our airspace system. It seems that the airlines are all for this new idea and the weekend Cessna pilot thinks it is a ridiculous plan.

The concept has been compared to gun control. Start off with user fees for turbine aircraft on IFR flight plans... give it a few years and even guys flying with a Sport license are paying user fees. Kind of like starting with a national registry of gun owners and ending up with only legal firearms for law enforcement personnel. I don't want to get into a gun control debate, but I thought I'd use the comparison for illustrative purposes.

So, what does everyone think about this?

Here is a summary of the whole concept from the AOPA website.

Pay for a weather brief? God forbit to file a flight plan. Just another reason why accident statistics would increase and more people would be lost without filed flight plans, IMO. I figure, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 
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