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NEWS USAF Fighter And Bomber Crews Get Modified M4 Rifles That Fit Under Ejection Seats
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
Why was .40 not optimal, and what are they mostly switching to?
Where can someone buy them?
![600_1965--OnboardUSSSARATOGA(1)[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/25/25340-a6ada47e0e0dfbb5453a36e4445a5948.jpg)
Huh? I’ve seen some videos of random traffic stops that indicate otherwise...
Really I was being a sarcastic, but having been in plenty of firefights I see no reason to fire 30 plus rounds in a matter of seconds. That ain’t shootin’ that’s showering.
That is a great image, thanks for posting. VA-35, correct?This is our AW buddy Ron Marron packing the heat we carried back in our time. (Yeah, it was a few years ago.)View attachment 25330View attachment 25330View attachment 25330
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Most agencies, including the FBI have returned to 9mm - citing training efficiencies, improved marksmanship (less recoil), and improved performance of modern 9mm ammunition. Its been a sea change. 40 caliber was a great idea at the time - but many departments saw reduced scores, issues with smaller framed people being able to manage the recoil properly, increased training, and wear and tear on 9mm framed pistols refactored for use with .40 S&W. You saw departments adopting the Glock 22 in the 90's - by far the most popular duty pistol in the world. I think the FBI returned to 9mm after a lot of studies and concluded there is such a minute difference in the terminal performance between the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP, that the interface between the shooter and the handgun, ammunition capacity and shot placement (accuracy) matter more.
I come from the background as a competitive shooter - someone with real LE experience like @GroundPounder can probably explain it better.
https://aimsurplus.com/firearm/handgun/
Good example here:
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I felt a great disturbance in the Force . . . as if thousands of wannabe Internet commandos cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.
That’s a good summary. I’ve read a lot of incorrect inferences coming from that FBI executive summary as to why they switched to 9mm. A big one is that 9mm is as effective (shot for shot) as other calibers when it comes to terminal ballistics. It’s more nuanced than that, and I think you summarized it better: the difference is small and the entire shooter-firearm-projectile system is what matters.
It comes down to cost and sufficiency. Just about every agency has limited resources to train and supply their agents/officers. What is the most cost effective approach to sufficiently train and employ firearms:
-Premium 9mm sufficiently meets the FBI-determined requirement for barrier penetration and expansion
-9mm training ammo is cheaper
-9mm requires less time/money to train to a sufficient level (shot placement skill)
What is not mentioned is that larger calibers still perform marginally better, shot for shot, than 9mm... but at what cost is it worth it?
Most are switching to 9mm, though I've heard tell of some going to 10mm. As Griz said, the FBI ran a study a few years ago where they found that modern 9mm pistols just made more sense from a logistical and marksmanship perspective and that there wasn't enough of a difference between 9mm and .40 SW. I honestly never understood people's fascination with .40 SW. Every .40 I ever shot had a strange snap to it that caused me to shoot high and to the right. I could never figure out why nor could I train to compensate for it.
The Spad was such a sexy airplane.
I feel personally attacked. There's nothing wrong with having a favorite pistol caliber as long as it's .45 ACP. That's the Lord's caliber.
Never noticed it. My home defense weapon is a P229 in .40S&W that I've had for over 10 years. Maybe I'm just well-enough versed with the platform, but I shot expert with the M11 in 9mm, and didn't notice enough difference to knock me off my game.
I thoroughly enjoy my 1911 . . . or did when the damn ranges were open. ? But I've got to admit I'm a convert through and through to the M17. Same manual of arms. Great trigger. Incredible ergonomics. Easier to keep on target. Right before this COVID crap, I bought a replacement slide and barrel in .40S&W, and I plan to acquire a .357 SIG barrel as well, because why the hell not? One pistol. Three calibers.
I'd buy a .45ACP kit, but the .45ACP P320 is its own beast that can't interchange with the others. Which defeats the whole damn purpose. And I already have a 1911.
My favorite pistol is a p229 .40