USAA vs. NFCU: VA Loan, post-housing bubble Edition

[Spekkio]

So is the bottom line to stay away from USAA or NFCU? The way I see it, if the standard rate these days is somewhere around 3.5%, why not go with them?

Chase wrote me 3.15%, no points, $500 origination fee. NFCU came in at 3.25% with a $3,340 origination fee. That is in addition to the VA funding fee.

Also Chase didn't talk to me like I was a 10 year old, and they have a user friendly website that doesn't reset your application if you take longer than 3 min to complete it.

 

[zippy]

Chase wrote me 3.15%, no points, $500 origination fee. NFCU came in at 3.25% with a $3,340 origination fee. That is in addition to the VA funding fee.

Also Chase didn't talk to me like I was a 10 year old, and they have a user friendly website that doesn't reset your application if you take longer than 3 min to complete it.

Those are amazing terms. Chase is easy to deal with on the customer service side too.

 

[Spekkio]

Those are amazing terms. Chase is easy to deal with on the customer service side too.

Chase originally quoted 3.25%, but Janet Yellen gave me a belated Chanukah present.

Pretty much everything else came in at 3.5 with no points or fees.

 

[KTBQ]

3.375 APR (30 yr VA, no points) with no origination fee @ NFCU recently.

 

[smoke_screen]

I am getting into the discussion late, but hopefully my experience can help others out. Do not, I repeat do not go with USAA for a mortgage. Complete pain in the ass. I looked at both NFCU and USAA and they had comparable rates (NFCU was slightly better but I thought it would be nice to keep the mortgage where I bank). We started the refinance process on February 7th, 2014 and did not close until October 2014. Over 200 days and we went through 3 loan processors and had to do 3 appraisals (had an FHA loan). The mortgage company is not actually part of USAA banking and is located in Illinois. Seems like USAA bought this mortgage company but they are not even close to integrated and the mortgage company does not have the customer service or online access that USAA banking has. Very disappointed. Lack of communication and basic incompetence.

I have also not had a great experience with USAA regarding an insurance claim. Again lack of communication on their part. I have been contemplating for some time to switch over to NFCU but moving everything over can be a pain and a huge disruption especially since we use the web bill pay service quite a bi plus to be honest the Banking part of USAA has been awesome. No complaints banking wise, its just the mortgage and insurance folks I have a problem with.

Best of luck to everyone. just do your research.

It's nearly impossible to convince people that USAA sucks. I have had 3 really horrible -- objectively horrible -- situations with them in the past two years. I don't get it with USAA. I made a switch to NFCU and various others after the final screw job and it has been fine. USAA at its peak was better, due to convenience, etc, but I am so glad they aren't getting any more money from me.

Also, I know someone "on the inside" at USAA and I will simply suggest avoiding it.

 

[DanMa1156]

It's nearly impossible to convince people that USAA sucks.

You're right, and if it weren't for this thread, I probably would have been considering them as my top contender for my mortgage. In my case, I've had only positive experiences with them. The one time I had something stolen (a bicycle), they informed me it somehow appreciated in value and paid me full replacement value AT THAT NEW, HIGHER price (~$400 more than what I was asking for) within days. I got home from deployment and took a 5 minute "quiz" for safe driving and they gave me $20. I've had 2 loans with them so far (a MIDN starter loan and a personal loan) and both had no hidden fees, and both, I could have paid off early (I did with the personal loan) with no penalty and excellent customer service. I also have yet to find a cheaper insurer for personal property, valuable personal property, and 2 cars, and I have searched for one; given the one time I had a claim and how good the customer service was, I probably wouldn't even choose a different insurer without a very significant price drop.

I will say I think USAA's investment department sucks and is priced far too high, so I use Vanguard for that. In then end though, I've only had positive experiences with them, I guess with anything, read the fine print and hope you made the right choice.

 

[Spekkio]

The one person who was completely, 100% useless to the process was the buying realtor. It seriously makes me angry that this man is literally going to make over $5,000 for about 3-4 hours of work meeting me at a handful of properties and drafting a cookie-cutter purchase and sales agreement.

When it comes to finding a home, everything in the MLS database is listed on the web. You might be able to get a 24 hour lead on a property coming through that same office (this is supposedly ethically questionable at least in this state). The purchase and sale agreement can be generated by a real-estate attorney for a fraction of the cost.

Showing houses amounted to the realtor handing me the same MLS printout I saw on zillow/realtor.com/trulia and standing in the corner. When it came to negotiating the price, any questions I had about the market or quality of the property were met with a combination of blank stares or 'what is the house worth to you.' This is mainly because any time you come down in price, the guy who is supposedly working for you takes a pay cut. Do you think he wants you to come in at 88% of the asking price instead of 93% when you are considering an offer? No, he doesn't want that.

The only hitch is that virtually no seller's agent will talk to someone who is not represented by a buying agent. So you're stuck paying 2.5% of your home value to someone because otherwise the seller's agent just won't give you the time of day.

As a first-time home buyer, I thought at the very least the realtor had a lot more involvement with arranging the attorney, inspections, etc, and that he would earn his keep in this process... so that I can go to work and show up at closing with everything ready to go. Haha, that was silly of me. That's apparently all on the buyer. There were several key steps that would have caused the closing date or inspection deadlines to be missed if I hadn't applied the thinking/planning beat into me by the Navy and proactively made phone calls/arranged meetings/asked a lot of questions about what to do next. The day I went into contract, I spent two hours on the phone arranging all of this stuff. Then again, most everyone I talk to in my family is surprised that I was able to get closed in 45 days, and I suppose the lack of initiative involved by everyone in the process (bank, attorney, appraisal, etc) and lack of someone to guide you through it is a big reason why it can take much longer.

 

[zippy]

The only hitch is that virtually no seller's agent will talk to someone who is not represented by a buying agent. So you're stuck paying 2.5% of your home value to someone because otherwise the seller's agent just won't give you the time of day.

That's state dependent. Some states don't allow dual agency arrangements. If you're really a serious buyer, in some cases the sellers agent will be able to work both sides of the deal, or refer you to a buyers agent. The trick is showing them you're a serious buyer. If you don't you're just a lookie Lou not really worthy of their time. Asking the listing agent if they can represent both you and the seller or asking them for the name of another agent you can work with will set you apart from someone who will waste their time.

 

[Uncle Fester]

From personal experience, I would not recommend having a listing agent represent both buyer and seller. It's a better deal for the agent, sure, since they pocket the whole commission instead of splitting it. But when haggling over the sale, you want an agent whom you know is on your side. I tried single-agenting with one house; found the listing online, loved the house, listing agent was a retired Marine O-5 who swore he could be an honest broker. Yeah. Fast-forward to negotiating over terms and he tells me, if you don't want this house, there are plenty of buyers who will.

 

[Spekkio]

That's state dependent. Some states don't allow dual agency arrangements.

This state does that, too, but I wasn't talking about dual arrangements since that still entails 5% of the purchase price going out the door. I was speaking specifically of self-representing, where the listing agent would get his/her typical 2.5% and the other 2.5% just doesn't factor into the deal anymore.

From personal experience, I would not recommend having a listing agent represent both buyer and seller. It's a better deal for the agent, sure, since they pocket the whole commission instead of splitting it. But when haggling over the sale, you want an agent whom you know is on your side. I tried single-agenting with one house; found the listing online, loved the house, listing agent was a retired Marine O-5 who swore he could be an honest broker. Yeah. Fast-forward to negotiating over terms and he tells me, if you don't want this house, there are plenty of buyers who will.

On the flipside, I know someone who was able to get a drastically reduced price for his home by offering to use the listing agent as a buying agent while attending an open-house where he was just kicking the tires due to the high initial price tag. The seller and agent were looking to move the property ASAP. YMMV.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This state does that, too, but I wasn't talking about dual arrangements since that still entails 5% of the purchase price going out the door. I was speaking specifically of self-representing, where the listing agent would get his/her typical 2.5% and the other 2.5% just doesn't factor into the deal anymore.


On the flipside, I know someone who was able to get a drastically reduced price for his home by offering to use the listing agent as a buying agent while attending an open-house where he was just kicking the tires due to the high initial price tag. The seller and agent were looking to move the property ASAP. YMMV.

as a person who at one time held a real estate license, some states let the realtor represent both some states will not.

 

[Randy Daytona]

For those of you thinking of refinancing with interest rates so low (and have your loan with NFCU), you might not have to do a full on loan refinance. NFCU offers a loan modification and is a good deal. For a fee, they will lower your interest rate (if you qualify) on the remaining length of your term.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

For those of you thinking of refinancing with interest rates so low (and have your loan with NFCU), you might not have to do a full on loan refinance. NFCU offers a loan modification and is a good deal. For a fee, they will lower your interest rate (if you qualify) on the remaining length of your term.

For the mortage noobs like myself, when you say "full-on refinance," is a refi essentially like going through the mortgage process again? I know there are usually closing costs associated with it like in the mortgage (unless it's one of those no closing cost ones, but I assume they just add those costs into the new balance). I also heard the gouge on refi is that it's usually not worth it unless you can lower it by a full point or more (obviously not the case with the loan modification you mentioned).

 

[Flash]

For the mortage noobs like myself, when you say "full-on refinance," is a refi essentially like going through the mortgage process again? I know there are usually closing costs associated with it like in the mortgage (unless it's one of those no closing cost ones, but I assume they just add those costs into the new balance). I also heard the gouge on refi is that it's usually not worth it unless you can lower it by a full point or more (obviously not the case with the loan modification you mentioned).

When you refinance things are usually a lot easier since you aren't buying a house all over again. With rates so low many banks have made it even easier since so many people are refinancing nowadays.

As for the full point, do the math and see for yourself. I refinanced for less than a point reduction and it was worth it to me, it will cost me almost exactly the same over the long term but lowered my monthly payment by more than 10%. So run the numbers a couple of times and see if it is worth it to you.

 

[HH-60H]

For the mortage noobs like myself, when you say "full-on refinance," is a refi essentially like going through the mortgage process again? I know there are usually closing costs associated with it like in the mortgage (unless it's one of those no closing cost ones, but I assume they just add those costs into the new balance). I also heard the gouge on refi is that it's usually not worth it unless you can lower it by a full point or more (obviously not the case with the loan modification you mentioned).

If you shop around you can find lenders that will actually pay the closing costs (i.e. not add them to the balance)

As @Flash said, it's usually easier when you refinance. That being said, I refinanced from a non-VA to a VA loan and it was the most difficult mortgage event I have ever experienced.

That being said refinancing a VA loan is super simple. There is a special program that streamlines the entire process. It's called IRRRL, I think.