Unpaid Retirement Points

[lost_in_asia]

I am going to attend the Current Strategy Forum at the War College later this month as well as a NOSC change of command that will take place in addition to my scheduled drill weekend. Is there any way to receive points for these activities?

 

[nittany03]

Contact your chain of command and have them generate an unpaid drill. You need something that will last at least 3 hours for one drill period. If you double up, you can work for 8 hours, but each drill period has to have 4 hours' worth of work.

 

[Gatordev]

... as well as a NOSC change of command that will take place in addition to my scheduled drill weekend. Is there any way to receive points for these activities?

If the CoC is during the same period as your drill weekend, you can't double dip. You're not authorized to receive more than two drills in a work day. If it's on an additional day besides the weekend, then it could be "billed," but as Nit said, it has to be 4 hours worth of work.

You need something that will last at least 3 hours for one drill period.

I think he meant 4 hours, since that's a standard drill period. That said, unpaid drills won't give you pay (duh), but they can be used as points for your "good year" and used towards retirement. It's possible that your command may have access to additional funds. You would need to use an ATP for this, assuming the command would want to pay you for it (again, for 4 hours worth of work). If you're an aviator in an aviation billet, using an ATP is kind of sketchy. It doesn't say you can't, but it intones that you aren't supposed to.

 

[nittany03]

I thought you could do one for 3, but 2-a-day had to be for 8 hours. But then again, I'm new and very well might be AFU.

 

[subreservist]

There is ATP and RMP...I can never keep track of which is which...one pays for a 3 hr period; the other for 4. Generally, 1 is used for adminstrative work and the other operational work...each unit is given a few of these to allow them to reward the top 5-10% of the unit that is really doing all the work...lol!

But OP...you posed 2 different inquiries...NOSC change of command occurring while you are already drilling? You are already getting paid/points for your time in that case...you can't get additional for that. At best it would have to occur outside the normal drill weekend day/time, and I don't know why a NOSC would do that...

For the War College event. just inform your chain, as stated above, to generate unpaid drill for the dates of the conference. The NOSC will forward you a muster sheet that you get whomever from the conference to sign off on and you submit when you return, which will automatically add the point after processing. But based on you CoC inquiry, I have to ask "How are you getting to the War College?". Are you local to that area? If not, then you must be attending on some type of orders? If it's IDTT, then you would still need the muster sheet, but if you are going under any other type, you will get points for executing them.

Hmmm...I just searched the NWC website and see it is scheduled for June 17-18th. Doesn't leave you a lot of time (my NOSC is really anal about generating or dealing with musters after the event occurs). First I've heard about these forums...learn something new everyday!

 

[Gatordev]

There is ATP and RMP...I can never keep track of which is which...one pays for a 3 hr period; the other for 4. Generally, 1 is used for adminstrative work and the other operational work...each unit is given a few of these to allow them to reward the top 5-10% of the unit that is really doing all the work...lol!

For those that may be interested: ATPs and AFTPs are for physical mustering at a place of duty (could be anywhere). RMPs are for admin work done not at the drill location (though exceptions are known to be made). As far as the unit is concerned all Officer ATPs/AFTPs/RMPs cost the same when budgeting. Same with all of the enlisted drills (although at a reduced rate...One Officer ATP/AFTP= 2 Enlisted). Obviously it's all funny money and they actually cost more, but that's how they're budgeted. Depending on the unit, a command can have a whole bunch of these to use.

Do either of you guys have a reference for RMPs only being 3 hours? I've never seen that before in the 1001 and I've always seen commands use them for 4 hours of work (at least on paper).

 

[subreservist]

Do either of you guys have a reference for RMPs only being 3 hours? I've never seen that before in the 1001 and I've always seen commands use them for 4 hours of work (at least on paper).

I may have put my foot in my on 3 hours...that was word of mouth from someone I know. It appears after a little more research that both are for 4 hr periods. From information I've scavenged from NOSC PODs and internet:


Additional Training Periods (ATPs).
ATPs are for units, components of units, and individuals who are for accomplishing additional required training, as defined by post mobilization mission requirements. i.e. You can utilize ATP’s for training such as PFA and Qualifications.

No more than two ATPs may be authorized per day.


Readiness Management Periods (RMPs).
RMPs are used to support the following functions in preparing units for training: the ongoing day-to-day operation of the unit, accomplishing unit administration, training preparation, support activities, and maintenance functions. i.e. You can utilize RMP’s to conduct Audits, Medical updates.

No more than one RMP may be authorized per day.


Additional Flying Training Period (AFTP).

This is for Pilots/Aircrew in authorized flying billets.

 

[Gatordev]

I forgot the 1001.5F was superseded by the RESPERSMAN 1001.5. This is where all the above "gouge" from the PODs comes from. A link can be found here (I can't find the "official" instruction, but this works): http://www.vr59.com/assets/resper-m-1001_5.pdf

Here's the specifics for those interested (1570-20):

Duration of Additional IDT Periods. Minimum duration of
an additional IDT period with pay is four hours. IDT periods
must be conducted aboard specifically authorized training
activities only (e.g., Supported Command and NRA).

also...

(3) Readiness Management Periods (RMPs) provide support
for the day-to-day operation of the unit: accomplishing unit
administration, training preparation, support activities, and
maintenance functions. RMPs may not be performed on the same
day with any other type training period (i.e., IDT, ATP, or
AFTP). The number of RMPs shall not exceed 36 in a fiscal year
for any member, and not more than one RMP shall be performed by
an individual in one calendar day.

That's a relatively new change. You used to only be able to do 12 RMPs.

Also something interesting for aviators...

(4) For those other than aircrew members, the
combination of ATPs and RMPs shall not exceed 72 per FY. For
aircrew members, the combination of AFTPs, ATPs, and RMPs shall
not exceed 84 per FY.

This seems to indicate that aviators in an aviation billet are able to do ATPs. This is a different wording than the previous instruction, so it looks like it's technically legal to do it.

 

[Flash]

I have always known that non-paid drills are 3 hours because that is how my units did it. Not sure where it is in the regs.

 

[Gatordev]

I have always known that non-paid drills are 3 hours because that is how my units did it. Not sure where it is in the regs.

Why are you attempting to address the original subject asked by the OP rather than continue our thread derailment? Seriously, that's not how we do things here...

The instruction I linked to also covers IRR. From 1570-30:

(3) All individual IPRs are submitted to the NRA within
three working days following completion of the IDT periods. The
member shall provide completed individual IPRs (NAVRES 1570/22)
to the Unit CO within two working days of completion. For
incremental IDTs, the member shall update the Unit CO as each
increment is completed and the Unit CO shall collect IDTs until
there are a total of four hours for one pay IDT or three hours
for a nonpay IDT.

While not specifically addressing the admin of non-pay drills, it does indicate they are for 3 hours. I couldn't find anything else in there using Control-F.

I've never dealt with non-pays as it just seems wrong to not pay someone for doing work, but I've also always had access to decent resources to bring people in. Interesting what you find when you actually dig into the instruction!

 

[Flash]

Why are you attempting to address the original subject asked by the OP rather than continue our thread derailment? Seriously, that's not how we do things here....

I was trying to address the original subject, a thousand apologies to our Dear Leader!

...I've never dealt with non-pays as it just seems wrong to not pay someone for doing work, but I've also always had access to decent resources....

That is what you get for being in a hardware unit and not a 'normal' unit.

 

[Gatordev]

That is what you get for being in a hardware unit and not a 'normal' unit.

Don't hate the player... Hopefully I'll never know another life.