UAV/UAS

[Scerio]

I tried to search on the subject particular to the USMC but could not find much on the topic of UAVs/UAS, and no this is not a subverted inquiry into percentages of who gets jets.

I am curious how and if a 7599 in the Marines is eligible for assignment to UAVs (incidentally - is that a 73xx MOS?) or if an officer specifically has to select that MOS field at TBS or flight school? That being said, is any Air Contract eligible for UAVs as well? Does one have any speculation if that is predicated on performance in Primary and/or needs of the Corps?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Ventilee]

When I went through TBS(2 years ago) they were taking volunteers for the UAV MOS and it was a completely different track than an air contract. You cannot select UAV's out of Primary, unless something has recently changed and your platform selection is going to be more based on needs of the Corps than personal preference.

 

[Scerio]

Thank you, that basically clears that up though interesting. While I suppose the AF is irrelevant I believe they put students in UAVs right out of UPT.

Regardless, they are here to stay it appears.

 

[Skinsuit]

I'm at TBS right now - UAS is it's own MOS and is competed for by ground Marines. Right now, the MOS involves managing a team of enlisted Marines who operate the aircraft, but eventually (once we acquire/develop armed drones) officers will be the pilots. You go to some Air Force schools to learn the MOS and I think you get your civilian pilot's license out of it.

 

[Scerio]

Good to know, thanks. Albeit, the cart is so far in front of the horse its not even built yet in my case.

I wonder what that training equates into in the eyes of the FAA - Comm ASEL? IR maybe?

 

[Swanee]

I'm at TBS right now - UAS is it's own MOS and is competed for by ground Marines. Right now, the MOS involves managing a team of enlisted Marines who operate the aircraft, but eventually (once we acquire/develop armed drones) officers will be the pilots. You go to some Air Force schools to learn the MOS and I think you get your civilian pilot's license out of it.

Sort of. Officers are flying the MQ-21 right now, and it will most likely continue that way as we're getting heavy into the different EW payloads it can carry. No civilian pilots license, but it's only a few top of flights to earn your PPL.

Good to know, thanks. Albeit, the cart is so far in front of the horse its not even built yet in my case.

I wonder what that training equates into in the eyes of the FAA - Comm ASEL? IR maybe?

It's called a BUQ-4, Basic Unmanned Qualification level 4. There is not an FAA equivalent right now. You'd need add on flights to get your private and instrument rating.

 

[Scerio]

@Swanee - Are you guys operating outside of MOAs in the NAS? I am not sure if you can answer if you are solely none CONUS if not operating in special use airspace. Mostly curious because a friend speculated that the USAF takes UPT guys because they are most likely operating in the NAS outside of special use airspace. Makes sense to me, but just bouncing stuff of walls....

 

[Flash]

@Swanee - Are you guys operating outside of MOAs in the NAS? I am not sure if you can answer if you are solely none CONUS if not operating in special use airspace. Mostly curious because a friend speculated that the USAF takes UPT guys because they are most likely operating in the NAS outside of special use airspace. Makes sense to me, but just bouncing stuff of walls....

No, they are just desperate for UAV pilots. That really is all there is to it.

 

[Swanee]

@Swanee - Are you guys operating outside of MOAs in the NAS? I am not sure if you can answer if you are solely none CONUS if not operating in special use airspace. Mostly curious because a friend speculated that the USAF takes UPT guys because they are most likely operating in the NAS outside of special use airspace. Makes sense to me, but just bouncing stuff of walls....

Interesting speculation. The USAF doesn't take guys out of UPT anymore though, it's a completely separate pipeline.

The AF flies MQ-1s, -4s, and 9s in the NAS with chase airplanes. We don't use MOAs, we use restricted airspace and warning areas. Around Cherry Point we fly Shadow in the national airspace between KNKTs class D and the 2306 using a system called Ground Based Sense and Avoid. We're writing the procedures now and getting ready to set up testing for MQ-21 and beyond. The Army uses a similar system out in New Mexico.

I honestly think it's a waste of time and money, a requirement to be an aircraft commander for a group 3 or above requires a BUQ-4 qual , which is essentially an instrument rating. Our pilots have the capability and qualification to fly instruments, however our airplanes don't have the same ability (they rely 100% on GPS for navigation). If we could get NAVAIR to certify our airplanes for IFR we could fly IFR departures and arrivals, easily integrating to an already established and easy to use system. Leave it to the DOD to think they need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Flash]

Interesting speculation. The USAF doesn't take guys out of UPT anymore though, it's a completely separate pipeline....

They just took/are taking 80 UPT grads this year 'temporarily' to make up for UAV pilot shortfalls.

 

[Swanee]

They just took/are taking 80 UPT grads this year 'temporarily' to make up for UAV pilot shortfalls.

Ouch. That news hasn't made it way out this way yet. But... ouch. Those dudes are not going to get back into a flying cockpit again.

We're losing our 1stLts at the cyclic rate. An 80K bonus and 1500 bucks a month in ACIP has quite a pull.

 

[Scerio]

Interesting speculation. The USAF doesn't take guys out of UPT anymore though, it's a completely separate pipeline.

The AF flies MQ-1s, -4s, and 9s in the NAS with chase airplanes. We don't use MOAs, we use restricted airspace and warning areas. Around Cherry Point we fly Shadow in the national airspace between KNKTs class D and the 2306 using a system called Ground Based Sense and Avoid. We're writing the procedures now and getting ready to set up testing for MQ-21 and beyond. The Army uses a similar system out in New Mexico.

I honestly think it's a waste of time and money, a requirement to be an aircraft commander for a group 3 or above requires a BUQ-4 qual , which is essentially an instrument rating. Our pilots have the capability and qualification to fly instruments, however our airplanes don't have the same ability (they rely 100% on GPS for navigation). If we could get NAVAIR to certify our airplanes for IFR we could fly IFR departures and arrivals, easily integrating to an already established and easy to use system. Leave it to the DOD to think they need to reinvent the wheel.

Makes logical sense - maybe there was reasoning there years ago. I did not know they made it a separate pipeline coming (vice Flash's comments of them pulling guys from UPT regardless).

That is interesting though, thanks for the information.

 

[Flash]

Ouch. That news hasn't made it way out this way yet. But... ouch. Those dudes are not going to get back into a flying cockpit again....

Well it was in the newspaper of record for the Air Force, I can't understand how you could have missed it?! "Congrats on becoming a pilot in the world's greatest Air Force, now you get to fly a trailer!" Does the USAF have a version of the green weenie?

 

[Uncle Fester]

I'm of the opinion that UAS AVO is a great option for post-first-tour NFOs. Flying pretty much any big UAS except the Preds requires a lot of aviation knowledge, but not so much stick-rudder skills. An NFO with a fleet tour under his/her belt knows what you need to know to read instruments, avoid weather trouble, talk to ATC, what the airplane can and can't do, CRM/ORM, etc etc. Actually flying the thing is done with keyboard and trackball. A GH or Fire Scout can't shoot a PAR or do an overhead break, fly form or do an airnav. As Swanee said, it's all GPS nav. Most 'pilot' skills in a drone are, frankly, not applicable. Plus, one reason pilots don't want anything to do with drones is your hours and quals don't really do a damn thing for your aviation employment future outside, which is not so much something double-anchor types worry about, generally.

As an AVO I sat in a box and drove planes around by computer and radio, which is more or less exactly what I did as an E-2 guy. Pretty much the only justification for insisting on rated pilots as AVOs is to make the general public and FAA feel better about drones in controlled airspace.

 

[Ralph]

Army doesn't require rated pilots.

The AF is supposedly going to put them in manned aircraft after 3 years. They've done it before.

Are the Marines happier than the AF peeps?