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U.S. Airlines Can Face Big Fines For Long Delays

navy09

Registered User
None
It's "good" when the passengers pay the true cost of their transportation.

What on earth does that mean? Airlines, like all free market companies, charge fair market price. This isn't determined by how much the product costs to produce.

Think supply AND demand. If you're willing to suggest that customers should pay more you should also be willing to accept that the airline should reduce it's production cost. Yes, this can mean firing pilots and paying them less...
 

Beans

*1. Loins... GIRD
pilot
WRT taxi delays, why not put together local systems at each airport similar to the way ATC controls departure times, etc? That way your pax wait in their seats at the gate and you close up/taxi when directed by ground. You scoot full speed to the hold short and you're on your way. The travel time is short, so impacts from delays at the destination (hold short) or ATC can be absorbed rapidly. Even the amount of time required for de-ice prior to taxi can be added in to the scheduler. I've sat at the gate for an hour or two before, so I know some of this must be going on already, but why not apply something like this more uniformly?
 

Cleonard19

Member
Contributor
What's the likelihood that this results in arriving aircraft spending more time in the air just to make sure that departing aircraft are able to take off before approaching a time limit like this?
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
What's the likelihood that this results in arriving aircraft spending more time in the air just to make sure that departing aircraft are able to take off before approaching a time limit like this?
That's what USED to happen years ago .... interminable holding @ the point of landing as domestic-CONUS air traffic exploded post 1978 ...

Then -- the FAA decided it was mo' bettah and mo' co$t effective to keep 'em on the ground at point of origin until a reasonable 'slot' opened up for the take-off, enroute leg, and landing ...

So now to your question. Do you think we're re-inventing the wheel (or air traffic control system) yet one more time ... ??? :)
 

LazersGoPEWPEW

4500rpm
Contributor
What on earth does that mean? Airlines, like all free market companies, charge fair market price. This isn't determined by how much the product costs to produce.

Think supply AND demand. If you're willing to suggest that customers should pay more you should also be willing to accept that the airline should reduce it's production cost. Yes, this can mean firing pilots and paying them less...

Yea that sounds like the right idea. Start paying pilots, mechanics, etc all less.

Alright think about this for a minute.

EXAMPLE:

The airline you're flying on today has recently cut pay for ramp workers, gate agents, pilots, flight attendants, etc.

You are flying from Pensacola to Chicago to Los Angeles.

You are carrying 1 bag on and you are checking the other.

You're a smart passenger who watches the ticket agent tag your bag for the right flight. They then place that bag on the belt going to the bag room.

While you're on your way with your boarding passes to the gate the bag room guy receives your bag and looks down at the tag and puts it on the cart for the 1PM Chicago flight, but wait you're on the 10AM Chicago flight.

You make it to your gate. You are scheduled to board 30 minutes prior. The plane has deplaned but your gate agent is just starting to print their paperwork for the crew onboard. It takes her 10 minutes to print her paperwork.

The Captain has already returned to the aircraft after checking his stuff on the computer. The gate agent then walks the paperwork down to the aircraft taking another 5 minutes while they chat with the FAs and the pilots about how everyone just took a huge pay cut.

She comes back up and begins the boarding process. The doors close 10 minutes after schedule departure. That's fine though, you'll still make it.

Little do you know that the rampers are just now starting on bags. Ramp delay for another 15-20 minutes. Everything is all buttoned up and ready to go. You're pushing out of the gate now. Then you slowly taxi out and you're off.

A couple hours later you're descending down into Chicago. You look down at your watch and realize that your connection is going to be very tight now. 15 minutes to get from gate to gate. You're hoping the flight attendant goes down a list of gate information, but she doesn't. You are directed to a representative waiting outside at your gate.

You quickly deboard the aircraft and do not see the representative. (They got rid of that position because of increasing costs) So you go over to the gate agent and ask for the flight info. They respond by directing you to the screens available two gates down and say that they are busy dealing with the flight that has just come in.(Which they are.)

You quickly run down to the screens and find your gate information. You run to your gate and as you arrive they have just closed the doors and are no longer boarding. You curse to yourself and walk up to the gate agent. She directs you to the customer service center. You go there stand in line to be rebooked or you go on your computer to attempt to rebook.

But wait, the airlines have reduced flights and everything is booked solid. You're not getting out til tomorrow. Now you're stuck in Chicago and the airline no longer provides hotel vouchers or meal vouchers.

All because you couldn't deal with a hundred dollar difference in your plane ticket.





You get what you pay for.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
.... Airlines, like all free market companies, charge fair market price. This isn't determined by how much the product costs to produce...
But see ... here's where you miss the BOAT. Again ...

For the 10,001st time ... and hopefully someone is listening this time around (?) ... EVERYTHING in the airlines is regulated, inspected, approved, tested, re-inspected, re-regulated, and sometimes disapproved ... and then the FEDs do it all over again (gotta' justify that pricey govt' job, you know ... ) all at the cost to the airlines and in a true 'free market' ... ultimately at a cost to the traveling public.

Unfunded mandates. Not a 'free market' driving prices ... Feel free to repeat 10,0001 times ...

Unfunded government mandates + near total government control & oversight of the industry ≠
a 'free market company' or industry ...

*sheesh*
 

Alpha_Echo_606

Does not play well with others!™
Contributor
What on earth does that mean? Airlines, like all free market companies, charge fair market price. This isn't determined by how much the product costs to produce.

Think supply AND demand. If you're willing to suggest that customers should pay more you should also be willing to accept that the airline should reduce it's production cost. Yes, this can mean firing pilots and paying them less...

Yea that sounds like the right idea. Start paying pilots, mechanics, etc all less.

Alright think about this for a minute.

EXAMPLE:

The airline you're flying on today has recently cut pay for ramp workers, gate agents, pilots, flight attendants, etc.

You are flying from Pensacola to Chicago to Los Angeles.

You are carrying 1 bag on and you are checking the other.

You're a smart passenger who watches the ticket agent tag your bag for the right flight. They then place that bag on the belt going to the bag room.

[highlight]While you're on your way with your boarding passes to the gate the bag room guy receives your bag and looks down at the tag and puts it on the cart for the 1PM Chicago flight, but wait you're on the 10AM Chicago flight.[/highlight]

You make it to your gate. You are scheduled to board 30 minutes prior. The plane has deplaned but your gate agent is just starting to print their paperwork for the crew onboard. It takes her 10 minutes to print her paperwork.

The Captain has already returned to the aircraft after checking his stuff on the computer. The gate agent then walks the paperwork down to the aircraft taking another 5 minutes while they chat with the FAs and the pilots about how everyone just took a huge pay cut.

She comes back up and begins the boarding process. The doors close 10 minutes after schedule departure. That's fine though, you'll still make it.

Little do you know that the rampers are just now starting on bags. Ramp delay for another 15-20 minutes. Everything is all buttoned up and ready to go. You're pushing out of the gate now. Then you slowly taxi out and you're off.

A couple hours later you're descending down into Chicago. You look down at your watch and realize that your connection is going to be very tight now. 15 minutes to get from gate to gate. You're hoping the flight attendant goes down a list of gate information, but she doesn't. You are directed to a representative waiting outside at your gate.

You quickly deboard the aircraft and do not see the representative. (They got rid of that position because of increasing costs) So you go over to the gate agent and ask for the flight info. They respond by directing you to the screens available two gates down and say that they are busy dealing with the flight that has just come in.(Which they are.)

You quickly run down to the screens and find your gate information. You run to your gate and as you arrive they have just closed the doors and are no longer boarding. You curse to yourself and walk up to the gate agent. She directs you to the customer service center. You go there stand in line to be rebooked or you go on your computer to attempt to rebook.

But wait, the airlines have reduced flights and everything is booked solid. You're not getting out til tomorrow. Now you're stuck in Chicago and the airline no longer provides hotel vouchers or meal vouchers.

All because you couldn't deal with a hundred dollar difference in your plane ticket.





You get what you pay for.
You forgot the part where the bags make it to Chicago and then on to the original destination while you are stuck in the snow storm in Chicago. Wait it gets better, you left Pcola it was 75F and expecting the same in LA where all of your cloths went, you however were wearing shorts and t shirt. :eek:
 

FlyBoyd

Out to Pasture
pilot
What on earth does that mean? Airlines, like all free market companies, charge fair market price. This isn't determined by how much the product costs to produce.

Think supply AND demand. If you're willing to suggest that customers should pay more you should also be willing to accept that the airline should reduce it's production cost. Yes, this can mean firing pilots and paying them less...

Really? FNG SWO is lecturing a seasoned airline pilot about the Airline Industry? Really?

Do you think your simple explanation of the free market is an accurate description of what has happened to the Airline Industry since deregulation, enforcement of RLA and the introduction of low cost, small market carriers?

This isn't the forum for this discussion. This is http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/. While supply and demand are certainly a factor, you are naive to pigeon hole the entire situation into Economics 101. If it is/was truly that easy, it would have fixed itself already.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Seems to me that standing SDO/ODO running a house of cards aka "the flight schedule" and working wx/mx/crew day/etc issues after the first domino falls and starts the chain reaction... or taking your turn in Ops writing said schedule for your ground job, coordinating whatever other standing, emergent, or other random annoying issues is a not-to-distant cousin of airline operations... and with what I've seen as just another sheep/airline pax for cycle times onloading and offloading pax/luggage, occasionally waiting for a gate to open up on the domestic or was it international concourse after landing, varying waits at the hold-short... yeah, a legislated 3 hour hard time is gonna make things occasionally "interesting." <cringe>
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
What on earth does that mean? Airlines, like all free market companies, charge fair market price. This isn't determined by how much the product costs to produce.

Think supply AND demand. If you're willing to suggest that customers should pay more you should also be willing to accept that the airline should reduce it's production cost. Yes, this can mean firing pilots and paying them less...
Ok, there are more people applying to be Navy officers than are accepted, so let's just cut your pay. Supply and demand, right?

Hey! The Navy wants more ships! But they cost more than is in the budget. So why don't we just cut your salary, benefits and retirement. That'll pay for another ship.

The regionals have gone this route. I will not fly on a regional airline or let my daughter on one. They are dangerous.
 

navy09

Registered User
None
Ok, there are more people applying to be Navy officers than are accepted, so let's just cut your pay. Supply and demand, right?

You make a good point. There are clear biases here. I'm a Naval Officer...I don't think Naval Officers should be paid less. Hmmmm...

Do you think your simple explanation of the free market is an accurate description of what has happened to the Airline Industry since deregulation, enforcement of RLA and the introduction of low cost, small market carriers?

Yes, absolutely. Deregulation?? Smart, dynamic, smaller firms?? Are you really against these things?

A4's: Many industries are subject to government regulation, especially as they relate to public safety. No firm today is going to be totally free of the gov.

Hey, if any particular airline wants to make their pax pay more of "their share" why don't they just raise their prices and see what happens?
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
....A4's: Many industries are subject to government regulation, especially as they relate to public safety. No firm today is going to be totally free of the gov. ....

Sorry ... you fail again. I'm glad this is not a college course ... or you'd never get the grades to get a USN commission.

The airlines are arguably (probably?) the MOST regulated of any industry in the good ol' USofA ... 35%+ of your ticket price is DIRECTLY related to unfunded government mandates ...

Give it up. You don't know what you're talking about. And you are desperately wrong.
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
I've had it!

No more airlines, I'm travelling around John Madden style

madden_cruiser_crop_2_nl8y.jpg


Everyone is invited. Maybe A4's can bar tend for us if we bring enough Polynesian women.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
I may have missed this in the article but when does the 3 hour window start? When the first fat-ass gets stuck in the aisle putting their 75lb samsonite in the overhead or after?

This will undoubtedly raise ticket costs evoking even greater levels of complaints from ignorant people who think that a $400 cross country fare gives them some board room authority.

Flying sucks. Its not what it used to be. Seems like it used to be an industry where customer service was what set one airline apart from another. Now with ridiculous levels of government regulation and a society where knee jerk responses to stupid customers rules the day...Not so much.

I tip my cap to airline pilots out there. I don't want the job. Used to be a glamours profession - the gvt has turned into just another labor market for them to F up. I'm not generally a fan of unions, for the most part I think they've outlived their original utility - BUT what other method do the airline pilots have to protect themselves?

Big fan of the FNG SWO telling HAL and A-4s how it "really" is. Priceless.

For giggles see: http://www.cswd.org/docs/airlineseating.html
 
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