GOUGE Transitioning to SELRES after 2xFOS

[Uncle Fester]

I'm going to talk with them and try to get a feeling for what their commitments and expectations are. I need to figure out the time division between the reserves and civilian job. I'm leaning towards a non-flying billet to ensure I can get my civilian career off to the right start and get established.

My $0.02, but unless you have a good civvie gig already lined up (and it didn't sound like you do), I would say get your foot in the door flying with the USNR while you're still junior and not as long out of the plane. Not being current it's a tough sell already, but will only get tougher the longer you're out of the cockpit. That being said - reputation in the Fleet counts as much or more as hours and currency, at least in my experience. I've seen selection boards pick up non-current people based on the endorsement of previous skippers and current ready room members, while guys coming straight from IP tours got turned down. Once a unit picks you up, they're more or less stuck with you until you decide to leave. They don't want someone who'll be a pain to be on the road with or will make the unit look bad to the Fleet.

@Gatordev says it's very competitive for RESRON seats right now, and with the FOSx2 bloodbaths, I believe it. So if you want to rush -62, then rush -62. Work your contacts in the squadron, get in touch with whoever handles recruitment (often the XO), show up for some drill weekends, basically do it like a civilian job you really want.

And don't think of VP as your only option for flying. VT and VR are open to you. Ask around and see what's out there. A lot of LTs coming into the Reserves make the mistake of thinking it's like AD, with a detailer who'll find something for you. It's much more like civvieland - if you want a good job, you have to go find it and land it yourself.

 

[Randy Daytona]

One word of caution from the cheap seats: all my buds who went SELRES just got MOBd (resulting in a job for @Fester). In general all of them were either reaching a good point in their new careers or were just starting new gigs after school or the first gig. In fact, one guy got MOBd while moving to a new job, so on his first day he got to tell them that he was headed overseas. Yeah, there are protections but, for instance, there's no guarantee that the guy who left an opening in the org I work with (that fester filled) will get that specific job back. Caveat Emptor.

They are STILL doing involuntary MOBS? wow...

I would suggest asking those guys currently in SelRes what is now important (i.e., boxes to check off) for your career - and make a gameplan on where and how far you want to go. Make sure that you sign up for medical insurance (SelRes medical is quite inexpensive) as well as survivor's benefits.

 

[nittany03]

They are STILL doing involuntary MOBS? wow...

I would suggest asking those guys currently in SelRes what is now important (i.e., boxes to check off) for your career - and make a gameplan on where and how far you want to go. Make sure that you sign up for medical insurance (SelRes medical is quite inexpensive) as well as survivor's benefits.

It's going down, but they're still there. They shifted the largest burden off the AC to the RC, but word from on high is that those too are dwindling. Word I got from a CO who'd talked to CNRFC leadership is that in the future, it will again be possible but not guaranteed to be able to do a full SELRES career and not MOB. Unless you have certain obscure specialties. *coughcoughVAQcough*

"Dwindling" does not mean "gone." As Gatordev said, you get a two-year deferment if you affiliate with no break in service. But after that, new SELRES need to be making life choices with eyes wide open. The price you pay for that extra $900-some in your pocket every month is to be ready to go when they call. When you take the King's coin, you can't complain about doing the King's bidding.

 

[Flash]

They are STILL doing involuntary MOBS? wow...

It's going down, but they're still there. They shifted the largest burden off the AC to the RC, but word from on high is that those too are dwindling. Word I got from a CO who'd talked to CNRFC leadership is that in the future, it will again be possible but not guaranteed to be able to do a full SELRES career and not MOB. ...."Dwindling" does not mean "gone." As Gatordev said, you get a two-year deferment if you affiliate with no break in service.

For folks I know MOB's seemed to go way down for about two years then came back with a vengeance about two years ago, we currently have 5 folks in my unit MOB'd out of 30 or so. We have a particular set of skills that are needed right now so it has been steady but from the MOB notices I see I don't really see them going down in number soon either due to the nature of the billets and the part they play in the current fight. I'll believe it when I see it about them dwindling.

If you are apprehensive about mobilizing you can help yourself by volunteering, two of the folks in my unit who are MOB'd volunteered for CONUS ones, and they are 'involuntary' and aren't ADSW's. There have been a few in the last week for folks to go to PAX so there are options out there.

 

[llnick2001]

How are the MOBs working these days as far as lead time goes? Is there a published shortlist of those potentially in the bone zone, or do they just get a call one day to get their stuff in one sock?

 

[nittany03]

How are the MOBs working these days as far as lead time goes? Is there a published shortlist of those potentially in the bone zone, or do they just get a call one day to get their stuff in one sock?

As I recall, it's 60 days minimum notification time required for an involuntary MOB, but that's rare. CNRFC usually gives well more than that. I had over 6 months' notice when I MOBed. If you're MOBing into a pre-existing billet especially, they can give you plenty of heads-up. Some of those billets have been on a cycle of people for awhile now.

Edit: and no, there's no short list. If your MAS Code has you as mobilizable, you're officially in CNRFC's WEZ. Reserve flag leadership beats this like a drum. To paraphrase: you're here to participate, and you're here to mobilize. If you can't do this, other than for short term fixable things, stop sucking up a billet and drop to the IRR. I do know that CNRFC's two-star will personally make a phone call to any NOSC CO whose Sailor shows up to NMPS in Norfolk and gets ruled ineligible there, asking WTFO? Not from personal experience, but I was in the room when he said so.

 

[Flash]

As I recall, it's 60 days minimum notification time required for an involuntary MOB, but that's rare. CNRFC usually gives well more than that. I had over 6 months' notice when I MOBed. If you're MOBing into a pre-existing billet especially, they can give you plenty of heads-up. Some of those billets have been on a cycle of people for awhile now.

From what I have seen nowadays about you get about 5-10 months notice, I haven't seen any real short-term ones but I have heard of a handful happening because of medical or other issues.

I do know that CNRFC's two-star will personally make a phone call to any NOSC CO whose Sailor shows up to NMPS in Norfolk and gets ruled ineligible there, asking WTFO? Not from personal experience, but I was in the room when he said so.

For a while about a quarter of the folks getting MOB'd never made it to their billet, mostly because of medical but often cleared by their NOSC, so I am not surprised they are cracking down.

 

[Purdue]

An add-on questions to this FTS-Reserve thread:

I'm stateside for job-hunting and my command has been very supportive. I've signed with a regional airline and they will hopefully be giving me a class-up date for when I start very soon. I'm anticipating a class-up in December, and I'm planning to call PERS and request orders with a release date once I know my class-up date for the Airline.

I know nothing about the Reserves, or how to find a unit. I'll be doing two or three months of training in San Diego, then a few months in Dallas... and I'll get based with the airline in one of three cities across the U.S.

(1) The CTO said they can't get me JO APPLY access until I have orders with a separation date in my hands, and I don't even know where to look for a job yet. I'll get free travel with the airline anyway... but I assume it would be best to assign myself to a unit where I'm living/working anyway. How easy is it to travel to do your monthly/annual commitments?

(2) How liable am I to be able to postpone those commitments for my first 6 months or so in the Reserves so as to not conflict with the "Welcome to your new career" training and job firehose effect?

(3) It seems that it's hard to affiliate with a flying-billet if I haven't already been "rushing" the unit at this point. What are my options, or what type of generic-officer-assignment would this 1310 expect? How easy is it to transfer into a flying unit once I know where I am stationed and what I am doing? (NOTE: I'm a MH-60S guy, but have civvie fixed-wing experience and will be obviously flying a jet as my day-job)

I've shot e-mails and phonecalls to the CTO but am not getting any answers...

 

[Uncle Fester]

Given the shenanigans I've dealt with going through big NOSCs like Jax, DC, and Norfolk, I'm not surprised people slip trough the cracks at NOSC East Styrofoam or wherever.

 

[nittany03]

Yes, you can't get JOAPPLY access until you're actually gained as a Reservist. This makes it harder to find a home if you don't already have a solid relationship with a unit you want to join, such as being acquainted with a SAU while on active duty or having an in with a hardware squadron. If you're stuck in this do-loop, I recommend you just tell CTO to put you In Assignment Processing to the Operational Support Unit at your chosen NOSC. You can be IAP for up to 90 days. What this will let you do is get your feet wet, understand how drills and reskeds work, and get JOAPPLY access. What you can't see until then is the nitty-gritty stuff like whether that LCDR billet will or will not take an O-3, whether that billet coded for designator X also can take other designators, and so on. Be a sponge and gain as much info as you can. Once you have a more intelligent idea of what units would be a good fit, call the COs and start interviewing and filling out your dream sheet on JOAPPLY.

And for the love of God, don't let CTO sell you on being cross-assigned to a unit until you can educate yourself on whether or not that is a good fit. I've personally been very underwhelmed with the Reserves' ability to utilize the program for their benefit and the benefit of the Reservist. You run the risk of becoming the redheaded stepchild stuck in the OSU and ignored by your gaining command.

Edit: Sorry, I might have gone over your head about travel. There are three UICs you need to be familiar with. Your TRUIC is your Training UIC. This is the unit you show up to on weekends. Your UMUIC is your Mobilization UIC. This is where you would go if Congress ordered full Reserve mobilization for a major theater war (this hasn't happened in a long time; we've currently been operating under a Presidential partial mobilization for the past 15 years). Your AUIC is the active duty UIC that gains your UMUIC in that case.

If TRUIC == UMUIC, you are a local fill. This is a bit of a misnomer. You have one place to show up every weekend (I'm avoiding flex drills for simplicity's sake here). It can be at any NOSC anywhere, with no relation to where you live. But YOU are on the hook to get your ass there on your own dime.

If TRUIC != UMUIC, you are cross-assigned. You have this option if your UMUIC is outside your local area. Good news: Big Navy will allegedly pay for you to travel once a quarter to drill at your UMUIC; this is Inactive Duty Training Travel or IDTT. Bad news: Every other time you have to go down there yourself on your own dime or drill locally at the OSU at your NOSC. Notice a trend about what I'm underlining? Other bad news: OSOs (the FTS people who control the checkbook) are not always good about diligently trying to spend or steal money to get you down there. I worked with an LSC cross-assigned as an enabler to Seal Team 17 in Coronado. Yes, there are two SELRES SEAL Teams. We almost never saw her outside of mandatory drills, because they were flush with cash. I had a different experience, involving less IDTT than I even rated, and piles of excuses from my OSO and OpsO. YMMV.

Edit of the edit: Other things about cross-assignments: The CO has to agree to take you cross-assigned, and has a window in which he/she can bump you in favor of a local fill if a local fill shows up.

 

[Flash]

(1) The CTO said they can't get me JO APPLY access until I have orders with a separation date in my hands, and I don't even know where to look for a job yet. I'll get free travel with the airline anyway... but I assume it would be best to assign myself to a unit where I'm living/working anyway. How easy is it to travel to do your monthly/annual commitments?

(2) How liable am I to be able to postpone those commitments for my first 6 months or so in the Reserves so as to not conflict with the "Welcome to your new career" training and job firehose effect?

When you first get in the reserves you often get assigned to the Operational Support Unit (OSU) at the NOSC if you don't have a unit, it is basically the holding pen for folks looking for a reserve job. Once you find out where you are going get assigned to the most convenient NOSC for you and hopefully they will likely assign you to the OSU to start with. Generally folks are there less than 6 months, often just two or three, and NOSC's do assign folks to units involuntarily if you don't find a unit on your own in a short enough time so you might want to explain that you are transitioning right now and need some time. Where are the three locations?

A few options for you might be to go to the IRR for just a few months to get settled and then join the Ready Reserve. Not sure if there are any hang-ups with this nowadays but it used to be relatively standard, more recent transitions might have more up to date info. Six months after separation is a key date though, I think the deal still is that you need to affiliate within 6 months in order to get the 2 year break from MOB'ing, after 6 months it is a one year break I believe. Another option is if you join the Ready Reserves right away though you can also reschedule your drills into the future, up to the end of that FY, this is an even easier if you find a unit early and you work it with them.

 

[nittany03]

A few options for you might be to go to the IRR for just a few months to get settled and then join the Ready Reserve. Not sure if there are any hang-ups with this nowadays but it used to be relatively standard, more recent transitions might have more up to date info. Six months after separation is a key date though, I think the deal still is that you need to affiliate within 6 months in order to get the 2 year break from MOB'ing, after 6 months it is a one year break I believe. Another option is if you join the Ready Reserves right away though you can also reschedule your drills into the future, up to the end of that FY, this is an even easier if you find a unit early and you work it with them.

This is clutch; we had a SWO chick that came through my OSU who somehow (can't remember details) was coming on board as a SELRES, but also happened to be wrapping up a gig teaching school in some backwater part of the Phillippines. Like they didn't have running water, let alone Internet access. Not really conducive to making drills! Naturally PERS borked everything up, and she was officially gained to our OSU as a SELRES while still halfway around the world in the middle of nowhere. Huge leap-ex ensued to get her drills rescheduled, so she didn't rack up a bunch of authorized absences and not get paid. Remember, drills you resked (if able) you get paid for. Authorized absences are there if you need them for life things, but you also aren't getting pay or points.

 

[Jim123]

You can be IAP for up to 120 days, but effectively it's less since the RFMT/JO APPLY cycle runs quarterly. That cycle starts with a period of about a month when you can apply for jobs (there is a giant spreadsheet of all the billets), that part closes, and several weeks later the results get released. Then it starts over again. It's kinda like self-detailing. Some stuff is not so obvious- if you miss the window and your 120 days if IAP doesn't overlap to the next window, then you might be screwed.

Random thing that causes inordinate stress in the reserves: Don't forget to stick your CAC in an NMCI computer at least once every 60 days (NMCI webmail doesn't count... thanks, cyber policy geniuses). Say you miss one month's drill weekend (you can reschedule the drills, that's usually OK) but the prior month's and follow month's drill weekends happen to be scheduled >60 days apart. Better count days on the calendar... either make a special weekday trip to the NOSC before day 60 or call the IT person before that next drill weekend- that reactivation trouble ticket usually gets turned around the same day, but do you want to come to drill on Saturday morning and not have your card work until the next day? Oops, random coincidence but network maintenance on NSIPS just happened to be scheduled on Sunday... wish the card was working on Saturday. Heaven help you if you let that CAC go past 90 days...

The reserves are coming out with an app to do a lot of the online stuff- this includes a free card reader for your smart phone. Frankly, I think it's a brilliant idea and I hope it works as well as we hope. (The NOSCs have their own wifi networks, BTW, and they generally work well... with obvious limitations on privacy act stuff or getting something printed). Lots of millenials have smart phones but don't have a personal computer. Lots of reservists of all ages don't exactly have their laptop and card reader available 24/7. So here's how the app will be useful: most administrative stuff you do in the reserves has to get routed through a chopped by a chain, just like the regular Navy, but it's almost all web based. Email, evals, fitreps, travel orders, DTS, plus those random administrative distractions that were supposed to fade away.

Being cross-assigned is like having two bosses with all that it entails. If you're in your home NOSC OSU (most cross assigned people are, it exists for cross assigned people and for new people) then you can always help herd cats at your home NOSC; it will get noticed and it will be appreciated, but you will want to toot your horn to your real boss that you're pitching in instead of punching a clock on those weekends that he/she doesn't see you. Your real boss will see you only a few times a year when you travel there; it's human nature for people who get more face time to get ranked higher. When you do go there, they might do something like schedule Thu-Fri-Sat-Sun, which is good, but you'll probably have to take Wed-Sun off from your civilian job. If you have to be back to your regular job early on Monday morning then you're gonna be tired.

Random concept about cross assignment- you can be cross assigned to a like-unit, it doesn't have to be to the OSU at your local NOSC. That means you can drill with your local unit even when its billets are full. Seabees, for example, do this a lot. You can be a pilot in a nearby intel unit (such billets exist) halfway across the country but be cross assigned to a local intel unit, if such a unit exists. Another random concept- not all reserve units drill at their local NOSC (actually pretty obvious once you realize it).

Slight topic change- about people who failed out of mobilizations (IAs) at NMPS, especially for medical reasons. In nearly all cases there is a simple truth: the person decided not to go. Granted, the NMPS docs tend to dig a little deeper, and it's better to find a problem before deploying rather than during deployment. But before making it to NMPS, that person signed their name stating that they were ready to deploy and they looked people, in their chain of command, in the eye and told them they were ready. Then at the last second when they fell out at NMPS, someone else got tagged on short notice and another already-deployed someone else got extended. Keeping a secret or an honest mistake, odds are it was the former case. Think about that when you meet someone who failed out of a mob at NMPS, got tagged short notice and went, or got extended.

 

[Flash]

...Slight topic change- about people who failed out of mobilizations (IAs) at NMPS, especially for medical reasons. In nearly all cases there is a simple truth: the person decided not to go. Granted, the NMPS docs tend to dig a little deeper, and it's better to find a problem before deploying rather than during deployment. But before making it to NMPS, that person signed their name stating that they were ready to deploy and they looked people, in their chain of command, in the eye and told them they were ready. Then at the last second when they fell out at NMPS, someone else got tagged on short notice and another already-deployed someone else got extended. Keeping a secret or an honest mistake, odds are it was the former case. Think about that when you meet someone who failed out of a mob at NMPS, got tagged short notice and went, or got extended.

Not the case with the vast majority of cases I know of first-hand, including the three guys I went through NMPS with in 2010. CNRFC is putting NOSC's under that sort of scrutiny exactly because what I saw at NMPS, all three had been cleared by their NOSC's with issues documented on their record and then they were NPQ'd at NMPS. In all three cases they had some sort of back issue and were fully up and ready, but the Nurse Practitioner CAPT signing us off took recent CENTCOM guidance a bit too literally and was DQ'ing them even when they had been cleared by big Navy. One had even deployed to CENTCOM before with the same issue a few years before with no issues, he was willing to go but okay with going home while the other two were pretty pissed with one literally not having a home to return to since he had already rented his place out.

It had a lot to do with how disorganized things were at the time; conflicting medical guidance from the Navy and CENTCOM, little oversight of how the NOSC's were doing things (the DC NOSC had few folks get kicked back from NMPS, other smaller NOSC's had much higher rates), the small and poorly run NMPS I went through in Gulfport, an unprofessional medical screener who even got in a yelling match with the one CAPT in our group during his exam and the sheer volume of folks going through at the time.

Thing were run a lot better when I did the same thing 3 years later.

 

[Ektar]

I would suggest asking those guys currently in SelRes what is now important (i.e., boxes to check off) for your career - and make a gameplan on where and how far you want to go.

So, @Randy Daytona made a good point, what are the checks in the blocks that SELRES looks for? Types of Billets? Training types? JPME? Any general advice for getting ahead?

Again, thank you to all for the answers, this thread is really helpful!

-MAMAL