Tracking Jets as an old dude

[Brett327]

I mean I’m understanding that older dudes already in jets are able to perform. But the scenario in question is an untrained old dude (28+) has trouble tracking fighters in pilot training. In other words they have trouble learning at that age compared to the young (22-27). If that makes sense to anyone? This is pretty much straight from flying squadron (Baseops)

I'm 51 and flying Growlers until a few months ago when I changed locations. It can definitely be physical, but I've kept up with all the 20 and 30 somethings over the years. I got my wings at age 30, and although I flew a much less physically demanding jet for the first part of my career, two tours in fast movers during my late 40s/early 50s has absolutely not been an issue.

 

[Brett327]

I turn 33 next week, and am a non-prior in Kingsville right now. Sometimes I forget how old I am because of how often I'm surrounded by younger people and taking part in that lifestyle, which probably really helps. I ran into the same mindset when I reached out to guard units before commissioning in the Navy; they don't really pick older people because the lifestyle or something... I figured if I had to gamble with AD to get the airframe I wanted, it was worth it.

Your experience resonates with me. Because of my enlisted time, I've been 5-6 years older than my peers. This, and the fact that I've avoided marriage has helped me remain connected to a more youthful mindset. When I was a DH, I hung out with the JOs a lot. Little more of a bubble when you get to the O5/O6 level, but I still hang with the JOs and the Chiefs pretty often.

 

[Gatordev]

I’ve been watching this thread quietly for a while. I’m applying for pilot at the ripe old age of 30 in hopes to fly something fun. While I’m not dead set on jets, I wouldn’t turn them down if the opportunity arose. As for young vs. old pilots performing well; I’m not sure age is a factor until your reallllyyyy old.

As @MIDNJAC said, it's more about attitude and learning to be a student again. The reason is because, on average, the combination of older and prior enlisted studs would struggle more than the younger ones. But it's an average, so there are obviously many who don't struggle. The reasons were mentioned earlier, and having kids really adds to the complexity of being a student.

Can it be done and you get jets? Absolutely, but it's going to take a lot more work and time management (and expectation management from the spouse) to make it happen.

has trouble tracking fighters in pilot training.

I don't know what the AF lingo is, but for the Navy, it's "selecting" fighters (really, jets), not "tracking." Tracking sounds like you're taking pictures of tail numbers and then posting about it on the internets.

 

[FlightEngineerBobby]

As @MIDNJAC said, it's more about attitude and learning to be a student again. The reason is because, on average, the combination of older and prior enlisted studs would struggle more than the younger ones. But it's an average, so there are obviously many who don't struggle. The reasons were mentioned earlier, and having kids really adds to the complexity of being a student.

Can it be done and you get jets? Absolutely, but it's going to take a lot more work and time management (and expectation management from the spouse) to make it happen.



I don't know what the AF lingo is, but for the Navy, it's "selecting" fighters (really, jets), not "tracking." Tracking sounds like you're taking pictures of tail numbers and then posting about it on the internets.

Now there’s a valid point. Having a family definitely creates a distraction

 

[sevenhelmet]

What is “tracking jets”? Is this tracking a jet??

 

[insanebikerboy]

I’m 40 and just started flying the T-38 a few months ago. Pulling 5-6g surprised me at the physicality. Not insurmountable of course, but having only flown the T-34 in primary I wasn’t expecting it. I’m adjusted to it now but those first few flights were eye opening.

I say that because I doubt it’s the physical part that really is a factor, with some exercise and prep handling the physical stress of pulling gs is straightforward.

 

[zipmartin]

I’m 40 and just started flying the T-38 a few months ago. Pulling 5-6g surprised me at the physicality. Not insurmountable of course, but having only flown the T-34 in primary I wasn’t expecting it. I’m adjusted to it now but those first few flights were eye opening.

I say that because I doubt it’s the physical part that really is a factor, with some exercise and prep handling the physical stress of pulling gs is straightforward.

I retired at age 44. I was fortunate to have stayed in the cockpit my entire career. The last ten years was all adversary stuff. That type of flying, when you're on a Fallon or Key West det, flying 2-3 sorties every day, can wear you out when you're in your 40's. It's like working out, if you don't keep up with it, that first time back after a layoff will knock you on your ass. I still remember the first day of a Fallon det after I'd been off for a few weeks due to a family illness, finishing the last of 3 sorties that day, huffing & puffing during the short rtb from the range. I was out of shape for that type of flying.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Your experience resonates with me. Because of my enlisted time, I've been 5-6 years older than my peers. This, and the fact that I've avoided marriage has helped me remain connected to a more youthful mindset. When I was a DH, I hung out with the JOs a lot. Little more of a bubble when you get to the O5/O6 level, but I still hang with the JOs and the Chiefs pretty often.

I have always felt mindset has a lot to do with what we feel we can do. I am pretty sure I am a 28 year old stuck in a 52 year olds body

 

[Swanee]

I mean I’m understanding that older dudes already in jets are able to perform. But the scenario in question is an untrained old dude (28+) has trouble tracking fighters in pilot training. In other words they have trouble learning at that age compared to the young (22-27). If that makes sense to anyone? This is pretty much straight from flying squadron (Baseops)

The Guard has been doing it for years. Plenty of prior E's who went to pilot training in their upper 20s running around ANG squadrons that fly things with an F or an A in front of them.

 

[HuggyU2]

I'm no fighter pilot, and I never flew in the Navy. But I've got a pretty good view oft he AF fighter life from the outside. The age thing is all about "becoming part of the culture".

It's much easier to inculcate a 23 year old into the fighter culture than some that are pushing 30. OptionsDollarAir alluded to this. Same reason the AF is a bit discriminatory toward FAIPs (e.g. SERGRADs) going to fighters... my opinion.

The pre-frontal cortex isn't fully formed until age 25ish. There is a big difference between someone who is 23-24, and 28-30... both in terms of where they are in their family life, spiritual life, financial situation, etc... And it's not always conducive to the AF culture of "the fighter squadron" and becoming an integral and trusted part of it. To be clear, It requires spending a lot of time focusing on becoming smarter and better. Worthy goals... but a potentially hard and conflicting lifestyle.

You've got to decide if you want to become a significant part of that culture, or just do a touch and go after trying it for 5 years, and then move on.

Age, from a physical standpoint, is s a non-event when it comes to flying fighters.

BTW, I know a guy that showed up at USAF pilot training in 2018, 1 month before he turned 40... as a 2Lt. Reservist.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Thanks for the AF perspective Huggy, sounds like what OP is hearing on baseops. Also sounds like our AF counterparts in fighters are overthinking things a bit, and perhaps taking themselves and their "fighter squadrons" a little too seriously. But we also already knew that

To OP, if you are looking at the Navy, I wouldn't translate this too much between the services. I don't know of anyone in VFA who is consciously prioritizing candidates based on how easily they can be brainwashed

 

[HuggyU2]

Based on your reply, I obviously didn't articulate well.

In summary, the difficulties are not "physical". They are in being more mature and developed in your life. And now, 5-7 years after graduating college and probably being established in your own professional life, you will become a student again... in a group comprised primarily of those 5 years your junior. Doesn't really matter if it is AF, Navy, or Marine... I would translate this as something that affects all Services.

People do it all the time. It's simply up to you if you are willing to make the sacrifice and adapt.

As far as brainwashing... well, if you want to go live on a bo-at, that's your call. Yeah, yeah... cue the Bob Norris piece on Naval Aviation vs the AF, and the hot chick in Singapore (who's actually a guy, FYI). We don't drive boats. We fly jets.

We're the AIR Force.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Based on your reply, I obviously didn't articulate well.

In summary, the difficulties are not "physical". They are in being more mature and developed in your life. And now, 5-7 years after graduating college and probably being established in your own professional life, you will become a student again... in a group comprised primarily of those 5 years your junior. Doesn't really matter if it is AF, Navy, or Marine... I would translate this as something that affects all Services.

People do it all the time. It's simply up to you if you are willing to make the sacrifice and adapt.

As far as brainwashing... well, if you want to go live on a bo-at, that's your call. Yeah, yeah... cue the Bob Norris piece on Naval Aviation vs the AF, and the hot chick in Singapore (who's actually a guy, FYI). We don't drive boats. We fly jets.

We're the AIR Force.

Haha I mean there were certainly moments where I questioned my life choices while sitting on the boat

I think we are saying the same thing here, and I agree.....

 

[OptionsDollaraire]

So understanding what’s being said, as an older dude don’t act like you know everything and youre too good to hang out with your younger peers? Don’t be a stick in the mud and assimilate/integrate with your peers?

 

[HuggyU2]

Not really, no.
Act like a 28-30 year old. Be yourself. Bring your maturity to the ready room. But for the first couple of years, you will be an FTU student and then young wingman, which is a culture dominated by those younger than you.

I had a friend from the U-2 go through F-16 FTU as a new Viper pilot when he was about 35+. He worked well with the 24 year olds and mentored the ones in his class. He just didn't act like he was 24.

Just be aware of it and work hard. You'll do fine.