To go in Enlisted or as an Officer . . .

[jride200]

Hello to everyone on this forum:

I have been passively viewing postings on this website for a long time. Now, I would like to use the collective knowledge of all of those on this forum to get some questions answered.

My long term goal is like many, many others, to become a Naval Aviator. I have already took the ASTB. My scores were: 7/7/6 62. I graduate in December of this year with a degree in mechanical engineering technology with an additional aerospace technology certificate. I also have two associates degrees, one in mathematics, the other in engineering science. My approximate GPA is 3.5 (I attended several institutions. I understand the Navy will average seperate GPAs somehow.)

Although I have almost nothing to put on my application as far as extracurricular activities go (I am in excellent physical shape, though), I have a lot of positive employment history. I am a non-traditional student, a bit older than my peers. I am 25 and before returning to school full-time, I worked as a CNC machinist. As far as LORs, I have positive letters from 1) a retired USMC colonel and 2) a retired USAF major general. From knowledge I have gained reading this site, and according to my recruiter, my application package is very competitive.

I'm getting to my questions . . . according to my recruiter, the Navy will NOT help me pay back my student loans if I go directly to OCS. You see, I have A LOT of student loan debt. The navy will, however help pay student loan debt for those entering the navy as enlisted. Would I be crazy to go enlisted, and then hope to later become a officer-pilot? And how long would I have to stay enlisted before applying for OCS? This I ask because 27 years of age, the max for pilots (I think), is rapidly approaching? Finally, I am also considering applying for BDCP and earning a second degree in aviation science (flight). Would this at all be feasible?

Thanks so much,
Jason

 

[BigIron]

Don't go the enlisted route unless you want to be enlisted. The enlisted recruiters will tell you that is the only way to go, but it isn't. I had many a college educated sailor who has attempted to apply for an officer billet only to discover they are not "qualified" solely based on their educations. You will be competing against 1st and 2nd class Petty Officers with fleet experiences, evaluations, Navy awards, etc. In my opinion, it will take more than 2 years to get an officers slot. Someone on this board may know something else, but I base it on my experience.

If you want to be a pilot, I suggest you go through the OCS route. I had loans as well , but paid them off over time. I don't think the benefit of having your loans reduced/assisted by the Navy will outweigh the low pay of a junior enlisted sailor. There probably is a specific age waiver you could get for your enlisted time served, but again.....it's not guaranteed you will get picked up.

I don't know about the BDCP issue. Sorry.

 

[MasterBates]

Jason,

As a pilot with over $100K in student loans, let me weigh in on this..

Even at $100K, student loan payments if you refi out to 25 years are under $750 a month. I only took my federal loans out that far becasuse the interest rate is so low, it does not really cost that much more.

My private loans are on 10 or 15 year payoffs. I could refi them out more, and further lower my payments.

As an ENS, you will make more than enough money over an E-3 (which you should be automatically based on college credit, provided you pick the right rate) to more than cover the difference.

You will barely be a 3rd class before you would make LTJG (assuming you were to start OCS or Boot Camp the same time). LTJG is somewhat on the order of a $1000/mo raise over Ensign.

4 years post OCS, you will be a LT, while you MAY be a second class if you went enlisted. Look at the pay tables and see what the money difference is.

Even if the Navy pays off SOME of your student loans if you enlist, you would most likely be ahead financially if you went the OCS route. I think they have a cap on the amount they pay back. I doubt it will be $100K+ payback for a 4 year enlistment...

Now, as to the age thing. When you enlist, you make it HARDER to get accepted to OCS than off the street. And you start really dancing with the age limit on beginning flight school..


My advice, if you have a Bachelors in hand in December, apply for OCS.

If it will be longer than that, apply for BDCP.

PM me if there are amounts or other stuff you don't want posted public.

-LT Casey Bates

 

[IRfly]

I entirely agree with LT Bates. The pay differential between officer and enlisted (especially over the course of an 8- or 10-year aviation officer career) will more than make up for an student loans that the Navy may pay off for you. Also, serving as an officer will likely position you better for a civilian career in the future, whether after just your original commitment or after a full career--ask A4s whether its better to fly the 747 or head up its maintenance team...

There's also a lifestyle issue. You sound like you've been around the block a few times, and as an officer the Navy will begin to treat you like an adult much sooner (e.g. liberty during OCS for officers, while there is none for enlisted during boot camp). There is, of course, nothing wrong with being enlisted, but it's the difference between coming in for an A-pool muster (which takes about 15 min) and marching in a line hugging the bulkhead at NATTC.

I'm 99% sure that you can't use BDCP to pay for a 2nd bachelor's degree. The recruiters on the board can answer better. At any rate, if it were me I'd want to take a break from formal education and get a job. You will find few better jobs than as a Naval Officer.

 

[cricechex]

Totally agree with the previous posts. If you were to go enlisted, you would not even have the opportunity to submit a package without first getting your chain of command to approve your request. From personal experience, it doesn't even matter if you are fully qualified and competitive b/c the CO won't want sign off on it until you have been at HIS command for well over a year or even 3 depending on HIS personal preference and have proved yourself to your entire Chain of Command, that includes your Shift Sup, Shop Leading Petty Officer, Shop Chief, Division Chief, Division Officer, Department Head, XO, and CO. If any ONE of those people don't like you for whatever reason, you could get bent over and have to wait to he/she leaves the command to submit your request.

Furthermore, most Enlisted rates in the Navy are so locked up right now that you are fortunate to make PO3 within 4 years. All the rates with quick advancement have quick advancement for a good reason, the job probably really sucks balls!!!!! If you go enlisted though, make sure it is aviation, Air crew would be good, but might prove to have too long of training for your time crunch. Go PR, Parachute rigger if possible. You deal with the pilots on a day to day basis and have the best opportunity to share your situation and desires with them so they can help you out. DON'T Take some way technical job just b/c your are smart enough, AT's, AE's, AM'S and PR'S all get the same respect at the command. Noone really cares how long the guy's school was. IF you go enlisted you need to get to the Fleet ASAP to start building your rep! Just don't take ABE, ABH, Or ABF! Only aviation rates you do not ever want to take period!

But as the Officer's before me said, Get your aviation contract for OCS and enjoy flying and respect for your hard work in school while paying off your loans and driving a 94 honda civic, vs. getting payed similar (factoring in loan costs with Officer pay) but not flying, and getting no respect for all your hard work prior to enlisting!

 

[Brett327]

Furthermore, most Enlisted rates in the Navy are so locked up right now that you are fortunate to make PO3 within 4 years. All the rates with quick advancement have quick advancement for a good reason, the job probably really sucks balls!!!!! If you go enlisted though, make sure it is aviation, Air crew would be good, but might prove to have too long of training for your time crunch. Go PR, Parachute rigger if possible. You deal with the pilots on a day to day basis and have the best opportunity to share your situation and desires with them so they can help you out. DON'T Take some way technical job just b/c your are smart enough, AT's, AE's, AM'S and PR'S all get the same respect at the command. Noone really cares how long the guy's school was. IF you go enlisted you need to get to the Fleet ASAP to start building your rep! Just don't take ABE, ABH, Or ABF! Only aviation rates you do not ever want to take period!

The above paragraph is essentially complete and unadulterated BS. I concur that going enlisted is a bad idea for the original poster, but while ricechex may be a delicious and nutritious breakfast cereal, he clearly has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to how the enlisted side of the Navy works.

Brett

 

[HighDimension]

The above paragraph is essentially complete and unadulterated BS. I concur that going enlisted is a bad idea for the original poster, but while ricechex may be a delicious and nutritious breakfast cereal, he clearly has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to how the enlisted side of the Navy works.

Brett

I love rice chex. I think I'll go have some now.

 

[thenuge]

Listen closely. DO NOT GO ENLISTED. You will enter as a 27-28 year old, what, E-3? You would be doing a serious disservice to yourself by accepting an enlistment contract. It's like getting a graduate degree and then going and getting a job flipping burgers. Some people like myself were good enlisted candidates. I was 18 and needed direction. You are 27 and have your sh!t together. If you go aviation, you will most likely go directly to the line, regardless of what your rate or how smart or handsome you are . The line is not a place you want to be. Trust me.
You would better serve the navy in an officer role too. Unless you are just book smart and have no common sense / leadership skills .

 

[FMRAM]

If you go aviation, you will most likely go directly to the line, regardless of what your rate or how smart or handsome you are . The line is not a place you want to be. Trust me.

Concur, and not because being a plane captian is such a bad job either. You will have to service, prep, and inspect aircraft that YOU WILL WANT TO FLY. I would get a little tore up sometimes if there was an empty seat in the back of the Prowler and I wasn't in it. If you have the desire to fly, you will not be happy as a maintainer.

 

[CaptainRon]

Your ASTB scores are definitely good enough to go officer too. I got just about the same scores and right now I'm sitting around waiting for final select.

 

[The Chief]

Agree with Bret, lots of BS here and obviously folks not knowing of what they speak.

Without question, do not enlist if you want to be an officer. Period. Have a plan for your life folks. Do not drive to Los Angeles, CA via Boston, MA if your departure city is Reno, NV. Age, all else being equal, I would not recommend enlisting in the Navy at age 24.

As far as enlisted goes, there are some advantages to being enlisted. I estimate pay wise, apple to apples, the delta between me being enlisted vs officer is about 15% - 18%. Assuming I could have been an officer, I would have made a lousy officers, I am far better off, financially being enlisted that officer.

I say this to the 17 or 18 year old who is deciding to enlist versus going to college. The Navy is a wonderful option, officer or enlisted.

Let me also say this degrees. I have know many magnificent Naval officers with English, History, Anthoropolgy and so forth degrees, supervising, they leading very technical activities. They could not do my job, as I was a technical leader. Big difference.

I also saw many folks enlist in the Navy with a degree, they were as worthless as teats on a boar hog. Most were avoiding the Army. I had one guy with a masters in psychology from Columbia that could not even master the chipping hammer. When he had to holy stone the teakwood decks, he thought he was going to die. Probably wished he had.

 

[cdthe3rd]

Just don't take ABE, ABH, Or ABF! Only aviation rates you do not ever want to take period!

Let me threadjack for a quick minute and defend my fellow AB's. I started my naval career on the mighty IKE as an ABE hooking up the finest of naval aircraft to catapults and maintaining the very wires that assist in their recovery. Yes the job is not glamorous and sometimes without rewards, but just like every enlisted rate, aviation or not, its part of the whole that allows us to have the finest navy that we are a part of. So on that note for anyone that is deciding to go the enlisted route...don't be afraid to be part of one of the hardest working rates in the navy by becoming the very people that direct, fuel, launch and recover the very aircraft that the current, past, and us future pilots fly!!

I am off of my soapbox. Thank you for your support!!

 

[cricechex]

Once again Brett, I humbly ask for you to clarify your outright rebuke of my post.

The AB rating is definately a vital job to Naval Aviation but it is NOT ecessary for THIS GUY to go that route. I thought you for sure would agree with this, Brett. This Guy does NOT need to be in that rating. He does not need to be placed in that type of situation. He would probably hate life b/c it is mostly physical work and menial tasks and crazy long hours.

For those of you that have experienced this rate first hand, I understand that I do not have the intimate knowledge of the situation that you do, but from everyone I've talked to, they ALL agree that my Navy is totally different from theirs ie. Black shoe vs. Aviation (not stationed to the ship) That is where my suggestion came from, comparing my situation with my piers in other commmunities around the Navy. I was first of all recommending the aviation community but specifying not the AB side of aviation FOR THIS GUY!!!!!

Chief, Feel free to clue me in as well.

 

[snake020]

My long term goal is like many, many others, to become a Naval Aviator.

Decision sounds easy to me.

 

[FMRAM]

Once again Brett, I humbly ask for you to clarify your outright rebuke of my post. The AB rating is definately a vital job to Naval Aviation but it is NOT ecessary for THIS GUY to go that route. I thought you for sure would agree with this, Brett. This Guy does NOT need to be in that rating.

Your reading comp skills need improvement. Brett clearly said that he thought the enlisted route was a bad idea...which would include any and all ratings.

The above paragraph is essentially complete and unadulterated BS. I concur that going enlisted is a bad idea for the original poster, but while ricechex may be a delicious and nutritious breakfast cereal, he clearly has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to how the enlisted side of the Navy works.

Brett