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Thought I got P-3s.. Actually got EP-3s

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nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
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That's what your community's greatest aviator said in his masterwork.
This isn't the only time I've seen this, and it has to be asked. How the fuck does an O-3 of any service get an MSM?
Have fun in Whidbey....
Not being able to do this is more or less equivalent to failing at life. Welcome in advance to God's country. Yes, there are hippies, but they're generally more chill and accommodating than their Cali counterparts.

Just avoid downtown Seattle on May Day. That's when all the asshole hippies congregate. :)
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
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Super Moderator
Contributor
This isn't the only time I've seen this, and it has to be asked. How the fuck does an O-3 of any service get an MSM?
Pretty standard for USAF folks....but it was a one off award and not the norm.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
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Super Moderator
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Pretty standard for USAF folks....but it was a one off award and not the norm.
I know it's not the norm in Navy Air. JO = NAM. Hinge=NCM. Head shed=MSM. Commodore/CAG=LOM.

I've seen it on some Navy LCDRs and other service CAPTs, and it makes me wonder what the heck they use their AMs and COMs on. Usually the enlisted ranks have a pseudo-parallel rank-based structure, i.e. senior bluejackets and baby Chiefs tend to get NAMs, Chiefs and Seniors tend to get NCMs, and the CMC gets an MSM. I've honestly never been around AF/Army types in non-working uniforms enough to have read their ribbons and seen if they even bother giving O's achievement medals, or if they save those for the troops, and just start with COMs.

Would that we in DOD could actually standardize shit. Like Army/AF guys getting a Bronze Star without V for fogging a mirror in a combat zone, and the Navy/MC (justifiably) being like "F that shit."
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
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...Would that we in DOD could actually standardize shit. Like Army/AF guys getting a Bronze Star without V for fogging a mirror in a combat zone, and the Navy/MC (justifiably) being like "F that shit."
I think it has gotten to the point we ought to consider just eliminating the 'Joint' awards altogether, achievement and unit both. They have gone way overboard with them and all they do is make those who have them, me included, look like third world dictators.

While the Navy has been a lot better about the Bronze Stars for merit there have been plenty given to Navy guys too, I saw it myself several times where the only danger folks were in was getting caught by a stray rocket while walking for their comfy office to the DFAC. It was also pretty standard for years during OSW that CO's of some CVW squadrons got them dependent on the BG CDR. This was even after an in-brief just a few weeks early where NAVCENT folks told us in no uncertain terms that unless you were regularly in actual combat no BS's, whoops.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I think it has gotten to the point we ought to consider just eliminating the 'Joint' awards altogether, achievement and unit both. They have gone way overboard with them and all they do is make those who have them, me included, look like third world dictators.

While the Navy has been a lot better about the Bronze Stars for merit there have been plenty given to Navy guys too, I saw it myself several times where the only danger folks were in was getting caught by a stray rocket while walking for their comfy office to the DFAC. It was also pretty standard for years during OSW that CO's of some CVW squadrons got them dependent on the BG CDR. This was even after an in-brief just a few weeks early where NAVCENT folks told us in no uncertain terms that unless you were regularly in actual combat no BS's, whoops.
Maybe something like this.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Maybe something like this.
Maybe it's being pedantic, but:
"Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower...had 10 ribbons on his uniform when he left the military after nearly 34 years of commissioned service."
While it does not diminish his leadership or accomplishments, Ike never served in a combat zone in his entire career. I'd submit that a professional staff guy with a similar career wouldn't end up with too many more ribbons these days.

There are a lot of these "everyone gets a NAM, it's like participation ribbons, grumble harrumph" discussions floating around. And I don't disagree with the idea that the awards system is screwy, I don't think the problem is giving out too many awards. The problem is focusing on EOT awards and getting locked into the idea (because of EOT awards, I would argue) that paygrade equals what kind of award you can get.

I've had pushback for giving medals for merit - one of my coxswains did a superb job getting a boarding team on and off a suspect boat in really rough seas; the Coastie chief on the boarding team said it was some of the best small-boat handling he'd ever seen. My coc fought it because "it set a bad precedent to give an E-3 a NAM, and anyway he was just doing his job." The Coasties, to their credit, thought that was horseshit and gave him a CGAM.
 

P3 F0

Well-Known Member
None
VQ was such a great experience you decided to go elsewhere?
When were there, there certainly wasn't the shroud of imminent community death on the horizon. I think most of us were happy we weren't VP, with 2-month deployments (although there were a lot of them), good deployment locations, good per diem, and a sister squadron in a nice part of the world to maybe look forward to in your DH tour.

Some of these things have gone away, and I'm guessing there's more disgust nowadays at not really having a real community that advocates for you--I think most of the time, the Maritime guys sort of take a leak on the VQ world when the opportunity presents itself. I always felt like VQ was a round peg being shoved in the square VP hole.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
When were there, there certainly wasn't the shroud of imminent community death on the horizon.

Some of these things have gone away, and I'm guessing there's more disgust nowadays at not really having a real community that advocates for you--I think most of the time, the Maritime guys sort of take a leak on the VQ world when the opportunity presents itself. I always felt like VQ was a round peg being shoved in the square VP hole.
The VP community leadership was more than willing to offer up 2 Vq squadrons (one VQ and one VPU) for closure to save 2 squadrons worth of P8s.

When VQ was healthy and VP was parking planes before their wings fell off and crews were struggling to make ppt hours for the year, VQ was envied... VQ is still healthy but VP has the shiny new toy that's all the rage.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
VQ was such a great experience you decided to go elsewhere?
I wanted to experience something else interesting while I still had a chance, haven't you? It wasn't a hit against my old community by any stretch, my experience there was very good. I know it must be a shock for you that some folks don't come away embittered or angry from their time in Naval Aviation, unfortunately we can't all go through life loathing what we do or did in our Navy careers.

When were there, there certainly wasn't the shroud of imminent community death on the horizon. I think most of us were happy we weren't VP, with 2-month deployments (although there were a lot of them), good deployment locations, good per diem, and a sister squadron in a nice part of the world to maybe look forward to in your DH tour.

Some of these things have gone away, and I'm guessing there's more disgust nowadays at not really having a real community that advocates for you--I think most of the time, the Maritime guys sort of take a leak on the VQ world when the opportunity presents itself. I always felt like VQ was a round peg being shoved in the square VP hole.
The big problem has always been that there there has never been real community for VQ(P). It led to the death of the ES-3 and soon the EP-3, the idea that the MQ-4 will somehow 'replace' them exemplifies the ignorance of the Navy leadership to the EW mission both perform/ed. That has been worsened by putting the EP-3 mission under VP leadership, which makes about as much sense as putting RC-135's under KC-135 leadership just because they are the same basic airframe.

And yes, P3 FO and I had a good time in the EP-3 for all the reasons listed but I also enjoyed the mission too even if some were way too long.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
While it does not diminish his leadership or accomplishments, Ike never served in a combat zone in his entire career. I'd submit that a professional staff guy with a similar career wouldn't end up with too many more ribbons these days.
I would disagree, folks can get a lot more ribbons nowadays.

There are a lot of these "everyone gets a NAM, it's like participation ribbons, grumble harrumph" discussions floating around. And I don't disagree with the idea that the awards system is screwy, I don't think the problem is giving out too many awards. The problem is focusing on EOT awards and getting locked into the idea (because of EOT awards, I would argue) that paygrade equals what kind of award you can get.
When folks who get out of boot camp or their first school get 2 or 3 ribbons just for that it is way too much. What is the point of the NDSM anymore? Or the more than a dozen unit awards in the DOD, with 4 in the Navy alone? The sad thing is you don't even have to be in a real unit to get one, I got two for being on a staff the right years and one for merely being a part of NAVCENT for over 30 days. Then there are the countless service, recruiting, training, NCO development and overseas service ribbons among others.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
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Super Moderator
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except when it comes to getting the fuck out and going to fly for the airlines.
Jesus jumping Christ - just go already. Have you explored the possibility of requesting an early release from your MSR? I presume your CO is as eager to get rid of you as you are to leave.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Jesus jumping Christ - just go already. Have you explored the possibility of requesting an early release from your MSR? I presume your CO is as eager to get rid of you as you are to leave.
You can DOR from aviation and as long as you don't get picked up at a redesignation board you're out.... I only know this because I've seen it done once in an extreme case.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Jesus jumping Christ - just go already. Have you explored the possibility of requesting an early release from your MSR? I presume your CO is as eager to get rid of you as you are to leave.
What was wrong about what he posted? I've never flown a helo or a P-3, but it seems perfectly reasonable that a helo would be more fun to fly, while P-3's will set him up for the airlines better once the kool aide starts to taste bad.
 
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