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This could have been bad. - Finally a good outcome.
- Thread starter OUSOONER
- Start date
Geographically or on the airframe?
I don't even know why the hell they needed Mythbusters to test the "hole in an aircraft" theory.
Just look at the classic case of airliner fatigue: Aloha 243. The damn thing landed without half the damn fuselage (entire roof ripped off). Only ONE person, a flight attendant, was lost due to the wind blast blowing her out. Everyone else was seated and virtually unharmed and all survived.
The relative suction power from a hole in an airliner's pressure seal is hardly enough to make anything more than a piece of paper move. Lots of wind? Yes. Moving a human being around? No, not unless they are expose to the windstream (a la 243).
Well done to the crew of Quantas who seemed to handle it professionally.
Haha, ya. Fvcking Israelis.... "Eh.... no big deal! You don't need wing to fly. No Problem!" <in best Israeli accent>
Donno if it's just rumors, but allegedly the student pilot on that ACM hop outranked his IP, and his IP kept yelling to eject. He responded that he had positive control of the aircraft and refused to eject.
After he landed, he looked back and saw he had no damn wing! He had no idea he had lost his wing until that point. After the mishap investigation, he was demoted for disobeying a direct order from his IP, but then promoted back to his prior rank for his outstanding flying during that emergency.
They then sent a formal memo to McDonnell Douglas asking if it was possible to fly without most of one of the wings, and they got a response to the effect of "No, our models show it is impossible." to which they responded by sending in photos and video of the Eagle landing without its wing.
Now, all of that could be bullshit, but I think I'll believe it, bullshit or not, because it's funny as hell. And I know many Israelis (not to mention related to many) and it certainly fits the profile.....
Just look at the classic case of airliner fatigue: Aloha 243. The damn thing landed without half the damn fuselage (entire roof ripped off). Only ONE person, a flight attendant, was lost due to the wind blast blowing her out. Everyone else was seated and virtually unharmed and all survived.
The relative suction power from a hole in an airliner's pressure seal is hardly enough to make anything more than a piece of paper move. Lots of wind? Yes. Moving a human being around? No, not unless they are expose to the windstream (a la 243).
Well done to the crew of Quantas who seemed to handle it professionally.
Haha, ya. Fvcking Israelis.... "Eh.... no big deal! You don't need wing to fly. No Problem!" <in best Israeli accent>
Donno if it's just rumors, but allegedly the student pilot on that ACM hop outranked his IP, and his IP kept yelling to eject. He responded that he had positive control of the aircraft and refused to eject.
After he landed, he looked back and saw he had no damn wing! He had no idea he had lost his wing until that point. After the mishap investigation, he was demoted for disobeying a direct order from his IP, but then promoted back to his prior rank for his outstanding flying during that emergency.
They then sent a formal memo to McDonnell Douglas asking if it was possible to fly without most of one of the wings, and they got a response to the effect of "No, our models show it is impossible." to which they responded by sending in photos and video of the Eagle landing without its wing.
Now, all of that could be bullshit, but I think I'll believe it, bullshit or not, because it's funny as hell. And I know many Israelis (not to mention related to many) and it certainly fits the profile.....
Lobster
Well-Known Member
They need to do something to fill the half hour time slot.
Goes to show that CRM is important these days. With a lot of the salty flight deck nazi's going away. (not to say they don't still exist) United 232, Aloha 243 being great examples of "doing it right". A good crew goes a long way, there are so many potential accidents that could have been front page air disasters that were averted because of excellent crewmanship.
Lobster
Well-Known Member
That's true, remember the jetblue flight a couple years ago with the nose gear that was stuck sideways? Navy pilot landed that plane my dad is a captain for them now he knows and works with the guy.
"These days?" As opposed to when? It wasn't before?
What do you mean, "going away?" Is there some impending vacuum of experience in the airline industry?
These guys did their job. The End.
Not to mention the first officer on that flight was female, at a time when women were still proving themselves in the cockpit (although I'm sure they still are even today).
How do I know this you ask? I'm ashamed to say i was flipping channels one day, saw a movie playing with an airplane, and then noticed it was "Lifetime".
!! Although surprisingly it had no "big bad man" or "evil porn killing out kids" theme to it.Why did I watch a lifetime movie? Well.... I guess my balls were in the shop that day...
"Lifetime: Television for Idiots"
You have to admit CRM was a problem in the past. CRM became a big buzz word in the aviation industry late 70's early 80's. United 232 became the poster boy for CRM and it started really being looked at and served as a template for future CRM.
No there is no experience gap. The old school airline captains who used to do things their way or the highway and the FO needed to just shut up and let the captain run the show...you can't deny that was the operational environment for a long time in the past...Groupthink and the FO's attitude of "I'm not gonna say anything..he's a 20 year captain...he knows what he's doing" got people killed. It is still there..but more so in this day in age that attitude is trying to be addressed through proper CRM training, that wasn't taught in the past. This is not just some information I googled from WIKI...it is reality, and as a winged aviator, I am sure you are very familiar with.
That was my point and YES BZ to the Quantas crew. End of story.
And just to add..the head of our flight program was a CO (Col.) of a Buff squadron at Minot in the late 70's, he said it was sad to admit, but just the 3 semester courses of CRM we were taught was more than any CRM training he got in his entire career. That shows how much it was paid attention to in the past.
The point I'm making is that the inherent concepts behind CRM are not more or less important today than they were in the past.
I will agree with you that their organized application and instruction to aircrew has increased, which is ultimately a good thing, despite the sheer boredom incurred during training.
I will agree with you that their organized application and instruction to aircrew has increased, which is ultimately a good thing, despite the sheer boredom incurred during training.