"There I was" stories from a Vietnam era A-4 Driver

[The Chief]

..... I wondered again: Did they really know we were coming? How did they react so fast? ....

Okay, you asked, will tell you. Aboard the ship flight deck personnel wore transceivers in a "mickey mouse" hat configuration used to communicate, ordance, fuel, launch, A/C weights and that kinda stuff. Only one watt wireless transmitters. Normal half mile or at most two mile range. However, very often in the tropics the tropospheric E layer splits into two portions which creats a duct like phenomenon and those 50 mhz one watt signals bounch merrily along for hundreds of miles between those two layers. They were sitting there listening. They knew all.

Our ships moving up and down the coast, just off shore would come under fire and with pin point accuracy their mortars were zeroed in. None of that up one, down one, fire for effect, rather bang, bullseye. No firecontrol radars noted, no nothing. How could they be so accurate? Wellllll ... if you noted those bamboo poles you thought were fishing trap locations? They were actually marked to posit of pre-determined settings, that is "go place that bamboo pole where the round splashed". Sooo when USS NeverSail came crusing down, close to that pole, BAM .... well direct hit.

 

[BusyBee604]

Great story, very interesting to contrast the way things were done then and now. A lot of differences but a lot of similarities too.

Curiosity question, I know A-3's were used early on in their original bombing role, was that the case in your air wing?

Thanks again for posting guys!

Yes, our A-3s were used as bombers the first few months of the '66 cruise (CVA-61) in RT pkg's 1 & 2. At that point they were tasked for refuelling only, too big & vulnerable. On '67 cruise (CVA-64) they were Tanker & SpecOps only.
We did have a det of a couple of "Black Whales" (early IR birds) we flew night "truck hunts" with lights out, 2 Scooters in trail. If we scared them as much as we scared ourselves, I guess it was successful????

BTW Big Chief Forrestal was (CVA-59)
BzB

 

[The Chief]

.... "Black Whales" (early IR birds) we flew night "truck hunts" with lights out, 2 Scooters in trail. If we scared them as much as we scared ourselves, I guess it was successful????

BTW Big Chief Forrestal was (CVA-59)
BzB

Thanks. Yes, the night "truck hunts" above the "trail" were amazing. Did not realize that two A4's were in trail, retrospect does make more sense. Were the A4's time time spaced between the two or was it simo? I guess it would vary.

 

[BusyBee604]

Brownshoe. Good read. Well written. I was on CV's 11, 12, 19, 34, 43, 61, 63, 64 and Forestall (cannot remember hull #). As well as CLG-6, CLG-8 and a couple of AGTR's.

A3's indeed. Rode the A3, B model as I recall. Was on the Connie during that time. doing "spook" stuff. Amazing when you look back on it. Those "aviators" used to scare the *&&^&^& out of me, on purpose.

Who was the A4 driver that dropped his ord in a restricted area when he was pounced upon by a couple of MIGs that were out of Vinh? Wish I could remember.

And the time our Terriers got an inbound MIG-15 into PIRAZ. We hoisted remains of that bad boy aboard, after we found in fact it was an USAF drone. Got a photo of the somewhere inspite of good efforts of others to confiscate all film of the incident.

"Who was that A4 driver....?"
As the famous SGT Schultz said to his COL "I don't know Noddink!":icon_smil
BzB

 

[Slammer2]

I've enjoyed all the great stories the past few days. We need a Sea Stories sub-forum! Please keep them coming Gents!

 

[Catmando]

............ How could they be so accurate? Wellllll ... if you noted those bamboo poles you thought were fishing trap locations? They were actually marked to posit of pre-determined settings, that is "go place that bamboo pole where the round splashed". Sooo when USS NeverSail came crusing down, close to that pole, BAM .... well direct hit.

Thanks, Chief. Oh the tales you could tell.....

I am continually amazed about learning years later, certain new, interesting, but serious facets of a war that I thought I knew fairly well. Of course everyone realizes that they should never underestimate their enemy. But what is often overlooked is, ingenuity usually can trump technology.

I'm reading a book today about Linebacker II. In it, I find how badly we were betrayed by that traitorous Walker family of spies, and how lives were lost because the Soviets/NVA knew what was coming in advance, having "broken - or more accurately, been given - our code".

Of course it didn't help either that we struck the North like clockwork, everyday at the same times, alternating Air Force and Navy strikes, each 3 per day. But SAC was even worse.

 

[BusyBee604]

Okay, you asked, will tell you. Aboard the ship flight deck personnel wore transceivers in a "mickey mouse" hat configuration used to communicate, ordance, fuel, launch, A/C weights and that kinda stuff. Only one watt wireless transmitters. Normal half mile or at most two mile range. However, very often in the tropics the tropospheric E layer splits into two portions which creats a duct like phenomenon and those 50 mhz one watt signals bounch merrily along for hundreds of miles between those two layers. They were sitting there listening. They knew all.

Our ships moving up and down the coast, just off shore would come under fire and with pin point accuracy their mortars were zeroed in. None of that up one, down one, fire for effect, rather bang, bullseye. No firecontrol radars noted, no nothing. How could they be so accurate? Wellllll ... if you noted those bamboo poles you thought were fishing trap locations? They were actually marked to posit of pre-determined settings, that is "go place that bamboo pole where the round splashed". Sooo when USS NeverSail came crusing down, close to that pole, BAM .... well direct hit.

Jeeezzzz, if I had known that then, I'd have lost my radio on the cat! lol
Actually, with my luck I'd have benn manning the hot spare when someone else went down. Only one sure thing in night CAROPs. If you're the manned spare: You are going!

 

[The Chief]

.... and how lives were lost because the Soviets/NVA knew what was coming in advance, having "broken - or more accurately, been given - our code". .... .

And a bit later, USS Pueblo AGER-2 had "one of each" of our most sensitive crypto gear along with our most sensitive keylists and keycards, all intact when the ship was boarded, all of which was in denial. The latest version of BRIGAND was also aboard. Turned over intact. Of course all operator and maintenance documentation were also aboard.

Is that the Dennis Littrell book? Think he discussed Pueblo and connection to Walker?

 

[scoolbubba]

These stories are great. Keep them coming, gents...gives us FNGs something to mull over while we're sitting on a beach waiting to kick off the RAG

 

[Catmando]

And a bit later, USS Pueblo AGTR-2 had "one of each" of our most sensitive crypto gear along with our most sensitive keylists and keycards, all intact when the ship was boarded, all of which was in denial. The latest version of BRIGAND was also aboard. Turned over intact. Of course all operator and maintenance documentation were also aboard.
.....:icon_rage:icon_rage:icon_rage

Is that the Dennis Littrell book? Think he discussed Pueblo and connection to Walker?

No, the book is The 11 Days of Christmas – America's last Vietnam battle.

It is a very well researched book, giving rare and fascinating, personal accounts both from our guys and the bad guys, as each saw it regarding the the massive Hanoi defenses, especially their prolific SAM launches against the B-52 raids over Hanoi.

It gives an extremely interesting cat and mouse, ECM/ ECCM tactics, strategy and counter measures, a steep 3-day learning curve, and the successes and failures of logistics and command and control - on both sides. Essentially, the B-52 crews efforts were sadly compromised in a number of ways. But they got the job done. Great lessons to be learned from the book.

 

[Pugs]

It gives an extremely interesting cat and mouse, ECM/ ECCM tactics, strategy and counter measures, a steep 3-day learning curve, and the successes and failures of logistics and command and control - on both sides. Essentially, the B-52 crews efforts were sadly compromised in a number of ways. But they got the job done. Great lessons to be learned from the book.

Indeed those SAC guys were pretty screwed by their leadership but went out and did their job well. VAQ-132 was the first EA-6B deployment IIRC and they did yeoman service escorting BUFFs and after they started coming along they didn't lose any more to SAMS, even with the pretty limited ECM of the first generation Prowler.

 

[brownshoe]

"THE CROSS-COUNTRY" by BusyBee604

Another story BusyBee604 has given me to post for him.

Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was Friday morning 20 November, 1964 when I launched out of NAS Lemoore on a one?plane weekend cross?country. The A/C was A4C Buno 145115. Destination was Westover AFB, in Chicopee Falls, MA with a refueling stop at Offutt AFB in Omaha, NE.

Good WX all the way, the plan was to stop at Offutt, refuel and have lunch with my old squadron-mate LCDR Dick Stratton who was based at Offutt. I would then proceed on to Westover with a scheduled arrival about 8pm where my parents would pick me up then drive to my home in Fairfield, CT to spend the weekend.

The first leg was uneventful as was the lunch. At approximately 1630 hrs, I copied my clearance, switched to departure control and started the takeoff roll. At liftoff, raised the gear/flaps and accelerated to climb speed. A good indication of three gear and flaps up was displayed in the cockpit.

At 500' I received a call on guard frequency from Offutt tower advising me to discontinue the climb and to contact them on tower frequency. I did so and was advised that the tower operator had observed something fall from the aircraft, that I should slow down, return to the field and make a fly?by the tower with gear and flaps down for a visual. I did that (with a good indication of gear\flaps down in the cockpit).

As I flew by the tower, they advised that my port main wheel and strut was missing!!! There was nothing but a stub of a strut barrel on the port side. They then advised that the runway crew had picked up the wheel and strut from the active runway.

Naturally, the next query from the tower was "what are your intentions, sir?" NATOPS (the A4 standardization manual) dictates that with one main gear gone, you must land into short?field arresting gear on a foamed runway or eject, if that setup is not available. I knew that Offutt did not have the arresting gear, so I requested that they let me proceed east as filed and I would figure out where to go. I also knew that Westover was out, most AFBs did not have short?field arresting gear.

I climbed to my cruising flight level, popped in the autopilot and scurried into my enroute supplement to determine where I could land safely. Aha, NAS Floyd Bennett (Brooklyn, NY) had short field gear and I was also aware that they had reserve A4 squadrons there (so I could get parts & maintenance once this thing was on the ground), and had foam available.

I called St. Louis Center and asked to change my destination to Floyd Bennett and asked them to relay my situation to them with a request for a foamed runway at the short?field arresting gear. Also asked them to advise Westover and for their operations to advise my parents to jump in their car and drive to Floyd Bennett to pick me up (about a 120 mile drive).

The FAA air controllers were great all along the route. Over western PA, the sun set and it got dark fast. After a 2 1/2 hour flight, I was advised to start my descent, that Floyd Bennett was ready with the foam layed. I was also advised that NY Center had closed Kennedy airport for 30 min. and had all their arriving aircraft in a holding pattern so that I could be descended
immediately for the emergency landing.

As I made the final approach, I could clearly see the foamed area and the short?field arresting gear. The Coast Guard group at the base had placed a helo in hover at each end of the arresting gear with a huge light from each illuminating the landing area.

The landing was a piece of cake because so many good people including all the FAA controllers, the Floyd Bennett crash crew, the tower, and the Coast Guard had done their jobs perfectly. It amounted to a normal carrier approach, tailhook down. If I missed the arresting gear, it would probably be a cartwheel and disaster. I touched down in the foam about 50' short of the gear. The A/C was starting to swerve left as the hook caught the arresting gear and I slid to a gentle stop still on the port side of the runway.

To make a long story shorter, the only damage was a slightly scraped port drop tank although the whole port landing gear assembly had to be replaced as the stub was ground down quite a bit.

Thank the Lord, my parents did not arrive until about an hour after the landing by which time all the crash equipment had been secured and the A/C was in the hangar. They had no idea of what had occurred, only that Westover Operations had advised them that I had been rerouted to Floyd Bennett and that I had requested them to proceed there to pick me up (that probably saved a couple of potential heart attacks!).

One of the most amazing things about this incident is that the Reserve A-4 squadron had the A/C fully repaired in time for a Sunday
noon departure (luckily, reserves work mostly on weekends). They replaced the port landing gear and drop tank and did all the required drop checks, etc. by Saturday night. I returned on time to Lemoore on Sunday evening with an interesting tale to tell!

Written by: CDR F. Hugh Magee USN (Ret.)

 

[GO_AV8_DevilDog]

wow, good on that ground crew.

these are all great stories!

 

[brownshoe]

wow, good on that ground crew.

these are all great stories!

More to come.

Steve

 

[Shpion1]

Good Friend

Another story BusyBee604 has given me to post for him.

Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
have lunch with my old squadron-mate LCDR Dick Stratton

BusyBee605, you have some notable friends. Less than 16 months after your lunch date, LCDR Dick Stratton was a POW in Vietnam.

For those not familiar http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/s/s122.htm

Great Man, having been in Jax for a while met him several times and my old commodore had him talk to the command at a luncheon. It was an honor meeting him.