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The Warrants have arrived
- Thread starter e6bflyer
- Start date
I think it is a great program, especially for those who want to fly, but never had to opportunity to get a bachelors degree. I just hope it doesn't end up like the Army WO mafia. With the huge differences in the way that Army and Navy aviation operate, I seriously doubt that it will happen, but with enough Warrants around, it will definitely cut down on the amount of flying billets available for JOs, both on the sea and shore sides.
As far as super JO goes, Hozer, I would love to see that return, even in limited numbers. I would have jumped on that "grenade" in a heartbeat if I could stay flying and only make O-4 by retirement time.
As far as super JO goes, Hozer, I would love to see that return, even in limited numbers. I would have jumped on that "grenade" in a heartbeat if I could stay flying and only make O-4 by retirement time.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
NAS P-Cola... It's one of your double anchor brethern's primary squadrons...
With regard to the age waivers, I believe that these waivers are easily obtained and approved for prior enlisted folks going URL as well as the WO program. We have a couple of guys in STA-21 who are above, or will be above the age and none of them are really worried about getting a flight contract.
Your memory is four-oh. You're talking about the NavCad program.
The old on-again-off-again Naval Aviation Cadet (NavCad program - flight school after two years of college and commissioning only if you attained your wings) was a small and highly selective (and risky for the individual) program that produced some of the finest naval officers and aviators with whom I ever had the privilege to serve.
Functional in the '50's and 60's, and being resurrected in the late '80's, the program was shut down again in the early 90's.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pnav/is_199308/ai_1390240044
Everyone that is freaking out about this needs to read the message about how the warrants are going to be detailed -- they are going to sea. They will be sea to shore (production sources -- FRS/VT/HT) and back to sea. They are not supposed to be placed in squadron jobs that are your EP makers (QAO / NATOPS / AOPS) or DH jobs. The communities that the warrants will go to are VP, VQ, HSC, and HSL.
They are only selecting 10 pilots and 6 NFOs per board. Obviously, not all of those will make it, but it is still a small number of pilots. It will be a long time before the manning balance tips to the warrants.
My take -- these guys can provide an increased level of standardization both on the tactics side and NATOPS side (even though they can't be the NATOPS O, they can still be the NI or an ANI). It will take a few rotations to get the experience built up, but it is not a bad thing. The army warrants that I have worked with know their stuff, are great flight leads, and I have learned a bunch from the army warrants. Certainly that can't be a bad thing.
They are only selecting 10 pilots and 6 NFOs per board. Obviously, not all of those will make it, but it is still a small number of pilots. It will be a long time before the manning balance tips to the warrants.
My take -- these guys can provide an increased level of standardization both on the tactics side and NATOPS side (even though they can't be the NATOPS O, they can still be the NI or an ANI). It will take a few rotations to get the experience built up, but it is not a bad thing. The army warrants that I have worked with know their stuff, are great flight leads, and I have learned a bunch from the army warrants. Certainly that can't be a bad thing.
The numbers may be small now but I imagine they could expand in size and scope substantially if the program is successful. And while they might not get the 'good' jobs, what jobs are they going to do? And they would be taking some of the better jobs for shore tours, which are already hard to get.
Army Warrants know their stuff but at the cost of the regular officers, who have a fraction of the experience and opportunity for flying their careers. You might think differently if you are pushed out the cockpit and doing paperwork while the WO's get all of the flight time.
That is exactly where I don't want Naval Aviation to go.
Woohoo! Another bunch of Warrants the Coast Guard can steal away with our cushy lifestyle, increased pay in the regular officer ranks, and promises of time in the aircraft with Ashton Kutcher.
Looking forward to flying with you in a few years, Steeleshark2!:icon_wink
Looking forward to flying with you in a few years, Steeleshark2!:icon_wink
Exactly.......though a CWO4 or CWO5 makes decent money and cost just as much on average as the rest of us old dudes when it comes to health care...........
Two points then: P-3 bubbas have had a hard time getting to the boat to be competitive already (Anav, Shooter, Asst Ops, Strike Ops, TAO, etc) . It's part of the current recipe for DH. So, even fewer of those billets will be available. Same for the FRS.
Until the recipe for DH screen changes, I'm skeptical.
Right now, if you don't go to the boat and break out, it's going to be damn hard to make DH. (That assumes you #1/#2 EP'd out of your first tour)
I still see an issue in a squadron where a second or third tour WO with 2500 hrs has to take a sideline job while the 1000 hr (maybe if lucky) LT gets NATOPS. What's the reality when OPSO needs input on a high-vis event? Naturally, he'd stack the deck with high-mileage performers. If you are a crewman, which crew would you be inclined to fly with?
I guess I just don't want to see a sub-culture form in the wardroom where it's tough already to get guys to do shit. (see MB's O-clubs thread)
For what it's worth, I agree it's about the $.
There is one more area of concern for career naval aviators. In the Army aviation branch, only about 20% of the Army O-4/5 have a flying position in their last 5 years before retirement. That makes it extremely difficult to be competitive in seeking civilian flying employment.
This program more than likely will be expanded due to monetary reasons and less competition on climbing the ladder. It's been in existence since the early 50s in the Army.
But, I guess its better to be a Naval aviator RLO (real line officer) sitting behind a desk and/or floating on a ship the last 5 years prior to retirement than flying in the AF up to retirement.
This program more than likely will be expanded due to monetary reasons and less competition on climbing the ladder. It's been in existence since the early 50s in the Army.
But, I guess its better to be a Naval aviator RLO (real line officer) sitting behind a desk and/or floating on a ship the last 5 years prior to retirement than flying in the AF up to retirement.
Hozer -- the warrants will not be going to the boat on a disassociated tour -- they won't be taking those billets. They are going back and forth between sea and shore flying tours.
Alywn --if I were to bet, the navy has similar numbers to the army for O-4/5s in flying positions within at the 15-20 year mark. You are done with your DH tour by then. If you don't pick up Command, the pickings are slim.
Alywn --if I were to bet, the navy has similar numbers to the army for O-4/5s in flying positions within at the 15-20 year mark. You are done with your DH tour by then. If you don't pick up Command, the pickings are slim.