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The SHOW: Airlines still a "good gig"??

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Yeah I see them around here a fair bit when there are bad accidents. Saw one landing at one of the local Amish farms a few months ago.

It is a very good system and the Maryland taxpayers willingly pay for it.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Looks like maintenance tow from hard stand. Pilots probably not in the cockpit.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It is a very good system and the Maryland taxpayers willingly pay for it.
So, it is a service not reserved to law enforcement. A private company could perform the service, and usually do in other states. I am sure the Maryland SP do a great job. But I am curious as to the data that proves it is less expensive than private companies or superior service. Is nearly every other state getting it wrong?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
So, it is a service not reserved to law enforcement. A private company could perform the service, and usually do in other states. I am sure the Maryland SP do a great job. But I am curious as to the data that proves it is less expensive than private companies or superior service. Is nearly every other state getting it wrong?

The Maryland State Police helicopters are an integral part of the statewide trauma care system, the first of its kind in the country. The state is divided into regions and each is covered by at least one helicopter who transport patients to either the closest regional trauma center or a specialized center based on injury or patient to include pediatric, burn, hand and eye trauma among others (the chart is a little out of date, there are 10 helos now and they are AW139's, not Dauphins). This is in contrast to almost every other air ambulance service in the country that are specific to certain hospitals or hospital networks, provide only local coverage or operate on contracts and not an integrated statewide air ambulance service.

Why Maryland? Trauma care got it's start at University of Maryland, Baltimore and it has been a point of pride for the state ever since. The doctor who founded trauma care, Dr. R Adams Cowley, was a very forceful advocate who tried to ensure every trauma patient in the state be able to get to a trauma center within the 'golden hour', a concept he came up with. He also convinced state leaders that this was a goal Maryland should strive for. What was the only way to ensure that? Use helicopters like the military had in Korea and Vietnam.

Why the police and not the private companies? When the air transport component was started in 1970 the only way that Dr. Cowley got Maryland lawmakers to pay for the helos was as long as they were operated by the state police, and in 1970 there were no private companies that did air ambulance services. In their spare time the police helos do traditional police work. Since then it has proven to be very reliable and effective part of the state trauma care system, so why mess with something that works so well?

The result? Maryland is the only state that ensures almost every citizen can get trauma care within the 'golden hour' no matter where they are in the state.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The Maryland State Police helicopters are an integral part of the statewide trauma care system, the first of its kind in the country. The state is divided into regions and each is covered by at least one helicopter who transport patients to either the closest regional trauma center or a specialized center based on injury or patient to include pediatric, burn, hand and eye trauma among others (the chart is a little out of date, there are 10 helos now and they are AW139's, not Dauphins). This is in contrast to almost every other air ambulance service in the country that are specific to certain hospitals or hospital networks, provide only local coverage or operate on contracts and not an integrated statewide air ambulance service.

Why Maryland? Trauma care got it's start at University of Maryland, Baltimore and it has been a point of pride for the state ever since. The doctor who founded trauma care, Dr. R Adams Cowley, was a very forceful advocate who tried to ensure every trauma patient in the state be able to get to a trauma center within the 'golden hour', a concept he came up with. He also convinced state leaders that this was a goal Maryland should strive for. What was the only way to ensure that? Use helicopters like the military had in Korea and Vietnam.

Why the police and not the private companies? When the air transport component was started in 1970 the only way that Dr. Cowley got Maryland lawmakers to pay for the helos was as long as they were operated by the state police, and in 1970 there were no private companies that did air ambulance services. In their spare time the police helos do traditional police work. Since then it has proven to be very reliable and effective part of the state trauma care system, so why mess with something that works so well?

The result? Maryland is the only state that ensures almost every citizen can get trauma care within the 'golden hour' no matter where they are in the state.
I can appreciate the state wide integrated system. I once sat in a restaurant with our Sheriff's department helo sitting on the helo pad outside listening to the police radio as the forest service, rural fire department and the EMS company jacked around trying to figure out if a drowning victim met requirements for surface transport or air evac. We were not set up for a litter or enroute care. But the EMS helo was turning ready to lift off just 10 minutes away. It was a helpless feeling. I also understand how the State Police got the job early on and the back door way it got funding. Innovative for the time. If MD residents are getting expedited response times, I am sure that is as much a function of the size and more urban nature of the state as anything else, and certainly not just because it is the State Police operating the helos. Now that the system is set up and functioning so well, I don't understand why it isn't bid out. Hell let the Maryland State Police bid on the job as well. Why mess with something that works so well? How about because it might be made to work even better? My left of center friends call that "progress". Change for the sake of progress. Can't be looking back relying on old solutions and tradition. Why, that is conservative. :)
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I can appreciate the state wide integrated system..I also understand how the State Police got the job early on and the back door way it got funding. Innovative for the time. If MD residents are getting expedited response times, I am sure that is as much a function of the size and more urban nature of the state as anything else, and certainly not just because it is the State Police operating the helos. Now that the system is set up and functioning so well, I don't understand why it isn't bid out. Hell let the Maryland State Police bid on the job as well. Why mess with something that works so well? How about because it might be made to work even better? My left of center friends call that "progress". Change for the sake of progress. Can't be looking back relying on old solutions and tradition. Why, that is conservative. :)

First, it wasn't a 'back door' way that the police got the funding but way the state legislature funded the helos needed for the statewide system to work. It was all above board and done publicly and since the state police already had an air department that flew aircraft it was the logical choice for the state.

As for making it work 'better' I am not sure how that would be possible given the system works as intended, getting the folks that need it to trauma centers in the 'golden hour'. Has it been improved while still being operated by the state police? Yes, they took an expert panel's recommendations and reduced the number of patients transported that likely did not need air transport. They also got new helos with the recommended equipment by the FAA for air ambulance helos after a fatal crash and reduced the number they bought. Maryland's small size and large urban area certainly help the system work well but that doesn't mean a larger state can't cover most of it's citizens with a similar system.

Bidding it out would help how? And how would we know it would save money? Because we all know that contractors always meet the contracts goals on time, on budget and in the parameters spelled out in the contract. Uh huh, sure. Keeping it directly under the control of the state government ensures full and direct accountability of the system to the state, it also ensures that profit is not the primary driver behind it (socialism at it's best!). Again, it is the only system of it's kind in the US, and I believe the world, and it runs very well the way it is set up right now. Why take a chance to fuck it up? One of the few other locales in the world that has a state/provincial air ambulance service somewhat like Maryland's is Ontario, their air ambulance service is run by a quasi-governmental non-profit that expanded far from it's original mission and caused a major scandal there with all the shenanigans that went on.

Finally it is a public service that is run by the government, just like almost all fire and rescue services in this country. The state leaders and citizens of the state have supported the system for 45 years now and haven't seen a need to change it.
 

brownshoe

Well-Known Member
Contributor
First, it wasn't a 'back door' way that the police got the funding but way the state legislature funded the helos needed for the statewide system to work. It was all above board and done publicly and since the state police already had an air department that flew aircraft it was the logical choice for the state.

As for making it work 'better' I am not sure how that would be possible given the system works as intended, getting the folks that need it to trauma centers in the 'golden hour'. Has it been improved while still being operated by the state police? Yes, they took an expert panel's recommendations and reduced the number of patients transported that likely did not need air transport. They also got new helos with the recommended equipment by the FAA for air ambulance helos after a fatal crash and reduced the number they bought. Maryland's small size and large urban area certainly help the system work well but that doesn't mean a larger state can't cover most of it's citizens with a similar system.

Bidding it out would help how? And how would we know it would save money? Because we all know that contractors always meet the contracts goals on time, on budget and in the parameters spelled out in the contract. Uh huh, sure. Keeping it directly under the control of the state government ensures full and direct accountability of the system to the state, it also ensures that profit is not the primary driver behind it (socialism at it's best!). Again, it is the only system of it's kind in the US, and I believe the world, and it runs very well the way it is set up right now. Why take a chance to fuck it up? One of the few other locales in the world that has a state/provincial air ambulance service somewhat like Maryland's is Ontario, their air ambulance service is run by a quasi-governmental non-profit that expanded far from it's original mission and caused a major scandal there with all the shenanigans that went on.

Finally it is a public service that is run by the government, just like almost all fire and rescue services in this country. The state leaders and citizens of the state have supported the system for 45 years now and haven't seen a need to change it.

^^^
"Finally it is a public service that is run by the government, just like almost all fire and rescue services in this country. The state leaders and citizens of the state have supported the system for 45 years now and haven't seen a need to change it."

We might not know names but we all surely recognize faces and we all nod to one another when we are in the local eateries and about town. We locals know these troopers like we know our local firefighters, police and feel safe. If I'm in a restaurant in the area and see these folks having a bite, I'll pick up the tab, many other residents do as well. In short they're considered a part of the neighborhood. 'nough said. Please don't change the system we have.:)
 
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CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Contracting and privatizing I think would only work if there is a market within flyable distance to an appropriate trauma center, which would probably not work in the flyover states and western areas, simply because it's such a large area to cover for not a large population. Private does work and exhibit A of that is Vanderbilt. They do all the shock trauma (don't know if that's what they call it, but that's what I always heard it called in MD growing up) services for middle Tennessee and southern Kentucky and their helos are operating all the time (I know this since they woke me up all the time in college), but again, large metro area with highly populated suburban/rural areas surrounding make it feasible.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Contracting and privatizing I think would only work if there is a market within flyable distance to an appropriate trauma center, which would probably not work in the flyover states and western areas, simply because it's such a large area to cover for not a large population.

It can work out west, just fine. But the company has to be efficient and have multiple bases (or there have to be multiple companies). Since I'm a bit familiar with it, Montana is an example. Lots of land, but only a few population centers, however the main company there has bases (I think it's 4, but don't quote me) that provide radius of action to cover the state. The issue was that the company was apparently a shit show, which negated the efficiency part. They've since been bought out and now the bottom line is returning to normal.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
First, it wasn't a 'back door' way that the police got the funding but way the state legislature funded the helos needed for the statewide system to work. It was all above board and done publicly and since the state police already had an air department that flew aircraft it was the logical choice for the state.

As for making it work 'better' I am not sure how that would be possible given the system works as intended, getting the folks that need it to trauma centers in the 'golden hour'. Has it been improved while still being operated by the state police? Yes, they took an expert panel's recommendations and reduced the number of patients transported that likely did not need air transport. They also got new helos with the recommended equipment by the FAA for air ambulance helos after a fatal crash and reduced the number they bought. Maryland's small size and large urban area certainly help the system work well but that doesn't mean a larger state can't cover most of it's citizens with a similar system.

Bidding it out would help how? And how would we know it would save money? Because we all know that contractors always meet the contracts goals on time, on budget and in the parameters spelled out in the contract. Uh huh, sure. Keeping it directly under the control of the state government ensures full and direct accountability of the system to the state, it also ensures that profit is not the primary driver behind it (socialism at it's best!). Again, it is the only system of it's kind in the US, and I believe the world, and it runs very well the way it is set up right now. Why take a chance to fuck it up? One of the few other locales in the world that has a state/provincial air ambulance service somewhat like Maryland's is Ontario, their air ambulance service is run by a quasi-governmental non-profit that expanded far from it's original mission and caused a major scandal there with all the shenanigans that went on.

Finally it is a public service that is run by the government, just like almost all fire and rescue services in this country. The state leaders and citizens of the state have supported the system for 45 years now and haven't seen a need to change it.
Resisting thread jack...fighting urge...can't maintain..aaahhhh!:mad: By back door I didn't imply nefarious. I meant creative/imanagive. Obviously, co-opting an existing helo operation was the easiest least expensive way to stand up what was at the time essentially an experiment.

How can it be better? The obvious is cost. That is why bid it out and see how the state stands up. But it may be made better in other areas as well. Competition fosters innovation. For every government contracting horror story you can bring up there is a government failure in execution cost or fraud. Full accountability in government? Really?

Don't look now but many traditional government services thought the eternal purview of government has been privatized. We have a private fire department in my state. Several cities with traditional fire departments still contract for medical or ambulance service. Even in the UK all their rescue and some LE helo operations are contract. I think Canada may be going that way too.

Clearly the MD system is top rate and it appears the peeps like it. So I can't imagine anyone being afraid of open competition. It should stand on its own.
 
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