The MK-18 again! Mystery weapon

[ChuckMK23]

Apparently it's more common in the Navy than I imagined. kind of cool looking although the short barrel seems like it's poblematic - forreasons others have talked about plenty of times. Still cool to see the Nav. having a standard carbine and teaching folks practical small arms stuff. Seems like a good thing.

Description: Crew members the amphibious dock landing ship USS Carter Hall (LSD 50), fire MK-18 assault rifles during a live fire weapons qualification.

 

[A4sForever]

Wish I could buy one/do one --- but it's not gonna' happen on the "Rock" nor in the "Territory" ...



Top: A M4A1 with SOPMOD package , including Rail Interface System and Trijicon 4x ACOG. The barrel length is 14.5 inches.
Below: A M4A1 with a Close Quarter Battle Receiver. The barrel length is 10.3 inches.

I don't like Wikipedia in general --- too many unchecked facts posted as the Holy Grail --- but they have a pretty good write-up of the weapon on this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CQBR

Basically, you change the upper receiver and you are good to go. Good compromise between a rifle cartridge weapon (or at least an intermediate (?) cartridge) and a sub-gun size. Good for taking down ships and clearing areas with tight passageways -- i.e., ships -- according to the MCPO who still does it for fun and profit. They were originally only in the TO&E of Naval Special Warfare units, but they are now apparently available fleet-wide for Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure (VBSS) missions. I guess the Navy still likes to say "away all boarding parties .... "

Don't you just love bureaucrat-speak: i.e., a "visit" mission ... ... kind of like "awarding" punishment at Mast???

 

[Lawman]

Very, very effective CQB weapon. Sub's have been loosing a lot of favor in recent years to what have been termed "Patrol Rifles" in Law Enforcement. Talking to a lot of SWAT/ESU guys that use these on a daily basis Im a believer. No they dont have the bullet velocity they would if fired from a 20 inch or 16 inch barrel, but the differnce in effect at close range between a 5.56mm and a 9mm fired from a similar sized sub is amazing. The 5.56 is actually better to use in something like a Raid at close range due to the bullets tendency to shatter and send multiple fragments on differnt paths threw the body increasing the change of stopping the threat through incapacitation. With a weapon this size you gain in firepower without increasing in weight or mass over something like an MP5 (not a K model though).

I know quite a few guys in the local area that have taken advantage of that Department Letterhead and bought these as approved use weapons to carry on duty. Good stuff for places like A4's was saying, tight confined quarters where weapon size can be an issue. I can see where the Navy/Coastguard would find good use for these.

Drew

 

[xmid]

Anyone have any experience with the gas piston uppers they are making now for the m-16/ar-15 variants? The reliability of these things seems incredible and I would think they would be perfect for the sand box. To clean it you just pull out the piston clean it, lube it , and throw it back in there. They advertize them as being the same size and weight as an mp-5.

 

[Fly Navy]

Anyone have any experience with the gas piston uppers they are making now for the m-16/ar-15 variants? The reliability of these things seems incredible and I would think they would be perfect for the sand box. To clean it you just pull out the piston clean it, lube it , and throw it back in there. They advertize them as being the same size and weight as an mp-5.

Something Kalashnikov figured out in 1947. I love my AR-15s, but everytime I clean them and then clean my AK-47.... wow.

 

[A4sForever]

Anyone have any experience with the gas piston uppers they are making now for the m-16/ar-15 variants? ....

What's "this"??? Who's "they"??? Got a website link ??? Maybe I know and just don't know it ... but I am drawing a blank (no pun).

 

[xmid]

What's "this"??? Who's "they"??? Got a website link ??? Maybe I know and just don't know it ... but I am drawing a blank (no pun).

I read about a test of Patriot Ordnance Factory www.POF-USA.com I believe it was Small Arms Review, but I'm not completely sure. They fired some rediculous (30,000?) rounds through one in a torture test where they caked it in mud, ran over it with a truck, etc. etc. The weapon functioned flawlessly. POF's motto is "Reliability First... cleaning optional." They sell both complete firearms and uppers. The opper has a hollow tube with a piston in it where the gas tube on a normal AR are.

 

[Fly Navy]

Yeah I've seen em, traditional gas piston design used on many rifles, such as SKS and AK-47, as mentioned previously. I'd love to get my hands on one.

 

[FlyHopeful]

Here's my problem with it... It's snub nose -- And probably 5.56 at that. For CQB that sounds like a good deal, perhaps for boarding parties and such. The Navy needs to stick to classic and accurate long range rifles like the M14. The ship's crew is supposed to be focused on force protection and preventing terrorist attacks. What's a better way than sending a few choice high cal. rounds into unresponsive insurgent boat crew's heads? Even if you miss the shot, it's still 7.62... and considerably larger than the near .22 cal. M16 and variants. I hate watching the Navy give up utility for things that look "cool." Another instance of this might be the concept of blue/white/black digital camoflage uniforms for sailors...

 

[Fly Navy]

People that do CQB have long proven that shorter barrels and smaller weapons are far better than long, heavy, unweildy long rifles. I'm going to take a wild guess and say this is for using INSIDE a ship, ala boarding parties (as you said) and borders on their own ship. You want to wield an M-14 inside a ship? Not me...

 

[Brett327]

People that do CQB have long proven that shorter barrels and smaller weapons are far better than long, heavy, unweildy long rifles. I'm going to take a wild guess and say this is for using INSIDE a ship, ala boarding parties (as you said) and borders on their own ship. You want to wield an M-14 inside a ship? Not me...

To pile on, I'm also guessing that they're using M-60s or a GAU-16 and what not to repell cigarette boats vice M-16s or M-14s.

Brett

 

[squeeze]

Here's my problem with it... It's snub nose -- And probably 5.56 at that. For CQB that sounds like a good deal, perhaps for boarding parties and such. The Navy needs to stick to classic and accurate long range rifles like the M14. The ship's crew is supposed to be focused on force protection and preventing terrorist attacks. What's a better way than sending a few choice high cal. rounds into unresponsive insurgent boat crew's heads? Even if you miss the shot, it's still 7.62... and considerably larger than the near .22 cal. M16 and variants. I hate watching the Navy give up utility for things that look "cool." Another instance of this might be the concept of blue/white/black digital camoflage uniforms for sailors...

Please learn something about firearms before trying to speak authoritatively on them.

 

[A4sForever]

.....guessing that they're using M-60s or a GAU-16 and what not to repell cigarette boats vice M-16s or M-14s.

Brett

I "hear" .... "they" even used 20mm back-in-the-day ... that's prior to the DEA getting their own air force (small "a" ... small "f")

 

[Gatordev]

I "hear" .... "they" even used 20mm back-in-the-day ... that's prior to the DEA getting their own air force (small "a" ... small "f")

They still use them, if they have the Block 1 upgrade. They also have 25mm...for about 5 rounds. Then the gun jams, breaks, and is rendered useless until the next IMAV and they can get parts.

 

[xmid]

That post seemed pretty ignorant. "Even if they miss its still 7.62".... Whats your point? Are you going to be able to tell that the bullet flying over your head weighed 70 more grams? And the 5.56 IS an very accurate round, it does not have the ability to reach out past 5-600 yards with energy like the 7.62, but how often are you going to take a shot at someone from that range on a ship? And how many guys do you have on the boat that have the high degree of training it is going to take to hit a guy in a speeding boat probably from a moving ship at a range that would be a difficult shot on land? It's obvious that they plan on using these weapons in CQB. Look at all the other major firearms in CQB... they're all "snub nose". I like the new tools of the trade, and I bet the guys going down in to the hold of the drug running boats appreciate not having to manuever with an m-14. Now I have a question for the guys "actually in the arena" isn't there a problem with ricochet inside metal bulkheads? Do they use frangible bullets of some sort to cut down on the likelyhood of one of those buggers coming back to bite you?