The interesting world of VQ

[Fog]

TA-3B had seats in the old bomb bay for Pax, not like the EA-3B, used to fly between Guam and Cubi Pt. on the TA's.

Back in the day, the CNO a/c was a TA-3B. Having an executive a/c for the Navy chief is a new development w/in the past 25 years, I believe.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

Disestablishment ceremony for Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron TWO (VQ-2) held today at 1000 PST.

Bummer. On the bright side, it's a whole lot easier to standardize EP-3 flight operations now.

{Sigh}

I feel the pain, my buddies just recently did the same thing.

 

[scoober78]

Good question. If they're making them cross-grade/re-upgrade, then who checks out the -1 guys for assuming -2's mission areas? Hmm... Are there seriously no VQ JO's on AW to answer these questions?

Thanks scoober--that was a great update.

So, this is educated speculation...but...

Q-1 and Q-2 personnel designations have, since I was there, been nearly 100% interchangeable. It is not at all uncommon for Q-2 EWOP's or LABOP's or...to fly with Q-1 crews or vice-versa. As far as NATOPS qualifications, they have always been interchangeable. This covers EWOP, BL, LAB and in the front, NAV, 3P, 2P etc...The NATOPS interoperability occurred for obvious reasons. If someone needs a NATOPS check and there is a Q-1 blue card at a Q-2 det site...As far as the non-NATOPS ACTC quals (Aircraft Commander, Electronic Warfare Mission Commander etc..), I suspect the Q-1 CO will simply re-designate the personnel qualified in Q-2 for those positions under his authority. The training departments have been consolidated for a while now, so I imagine the poor performers or problem children are already identified and remediating.

As to the readiness piece...remember, as far as certifying crews for deployment goes...that is a Wing function. Several (2?) years ago now, the ARP process for VQ changed a lot. The community went from a site specific ARP to what is known as a World Wide ARP designed to get a crew "world wide deployable"...translation? The crew could go to any det site at any time. Then, when ORE time (usually the next week) time rolled around, the crew would get a det site specific ORE for West Pac or Centcom etc...

Now, real world, Q-2 bubbas still knew more about certain missions (SOUTHCOM, EUCOM) than their Q-1 counterparts...who knew WESTPAC and CENTCOM better...but our mission commander boards still covered "everything"...and the transfer of that institutional knowledge has been going on for several years informally...ie...periodically a Q-1 crew would go to SOUTHCOM etc...Additionally, as consolidation got big in the canopy there were intentional efforts made to "pass the gouge" and composite crews were built (Q-1 and Q-2 players) and deployed to certain sites to ensure a smooth melding of minds.

Help? I don't think there are any "more current" VQ folks on here than me...please chime in if I'm wrong...I will also do what I can to confirm this stuff in the coming days.

 

[rondebmar]

Disestablishment ceremony for Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron TWO (VQ-2) held today at 1000 PST.

Crap! It was just about fifty three years ago I began my USN career with FAIRECONRON TWO, based in Rota.

Was fortunate enough to attend the disestablishment ceremonies of VA-35 several years ago ...made two cruises with them ...where does the time go?!?

VQ'ers ...good spot for the following info ...just finished reading "By Any Means Necessary", authored by William E. Burrows. Pretty good write-up re the ferret missions flown in the late 1950's/early 1960's ...although focus is more on USAF than USN ...but a few of our shootdowns are covered also ...out of many. (To include Lt Shane Osborn's incident ...)

N. B. The gent who put me onto this tome was in the unenviable position of listening in to one of our MayDay calls resuting in the usual flap ...and losses!

Additionally, I have a copy of the U.S. News & World Report issue of March 15, 1993 ..."America's Top-Secret SPY WAR" ...a special investigative report ...again detailing our early ferret missions ...will post it out to anyone interested ...you promise to return!! ...and PM/email me your snail mail addy ...I'll scan & post the cover later ...

 

[picklesuit]

VQ-1/2...engage...close friends with several -2 people, they are not looking forward to the merge. But then again, who ever looks forward to being in the Q? 1+2=1/2....

 

[robav8r]

Just finished reading "By Any Means Necessary", authored by William E. Burrows. Pretty good write-up re the ferret missions flown in the late 1950's/early 1960's ...although focus is more on USAF than USN ...but a few of our shootdowns are covered also ...out of many. (To include Lt Shane Osborn's incident ...)

One of my favorite books ! Great history of the Cold War and U.S. Reconaissance efforts . . . .

 

[Malo83]

Back in the day, the CNO a/c was a TA-3B. Having an executive a/c for the Navy chief is a new development w/in the past 25 years, I believe.

VA-3B assigned to the CNO.

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[Aquonox]

For those interested, I have gathered a few links regarding VQ history and VQ-2's disestablishment.


A History of US Navy Fleet Air Reconnaissance by CAPT (ret) Don East

Part 1:
http://www.coldwar.org/histories/HistoryofUSNavyFleetAirReconnaissance.asp

Part 2:
http://www.coldwar.org/histories/HistoryofUSNavyFleetAirReconnaissancePartTwo.asp

Post Script/Part 3:
http://www.coldwar.org/histories/HistoryofUSNavyFleetAirReconnaissancePostScript.asp



VQ-2 Disestablishment Speeches

By CO, CDR Mark Stockfish:
http://www.vq2.navy.mil/Documents/V...12_SPEECH_CDR_MARK_G_STOCKFISH_CO_REMARKS.pdf

By CAPT Garvin:
http://www.vq2.navy.mil/Documents/VQ2_DISESTABLISHMENT_2012_CAPT_GARVIN_INTRO_OF_CAPT_EAST.pdf

By CAPT (ret) Don East:
http://www.vq2.navy.mil/Documents/CAPT_EAST1.PDF

 

[EA-3B]

Was Dale Hagen the skipper of VQ-1 or VQ-3 back then? He was the "father of the bride" at my wedding in 1980 since the real one couldn't make it from Indiana.

Anyone know if he ever got his star?

Good guy, although I almost killed him and the COMNAVMAR COS with a wicked slice off the tee that bounced around the cinder block shelter like a pinball.

Dale Hagen was the CO of NAS Agana when I arrived in July 1980. JD Meyer was the CO of VQ-1 at the time.
Hagen did make flag, and was back as COMNAVMAR before I left in Aug '83.


Cheers-

 

[EA-3B]

VA-3B assigned to the CNO.

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You're right, around '87 I believe.
They got Gulfstream IIIs (C-20).

 

[EA-3B]

Lts Kertscher, M. Brown, and Pies. AE2 Snider, PO2 Watson, YNSN T. Smith, PHAN Roth, FN Hietola, and SN Benjamin. As you can tell, it wasn't a real world mission. It was supposed to be a good deal motivational flight. Besides the officers I believe the surviving AT3 and the AE2 were the only regular aircrew. Nine guys out of a VQ whale det, that hurts.

Six were lost on that flight thirty years ago, 4 AUG 82 (LTs F. Kertscher, M. Brown, and D. Pies, AE2 Snider, PO3 Watson, YNSN T. Smith). AT2 Bob Huff survived. As was mentioned, A-3s came in a variety of configurations. The EA-3B version had max crew of 7.
As I recall, their designated mission that cycle was to fly a specified profile for calibrating the ship's radar.

 

[wink]

Six were lost on that flight thirty years ago, 4 AUG 82 (LTs F. Kertscher, M. Brown, and D. Pies, AE2 Snider, PO3 Watson, YNSN T. Smith). AT2 Bob Huff survived. As was mentioned, A-3s came in a variety of configurations. The EA-3B version had max crew of 7.
As I recall, their designated mission that cycle was to fly a specified profile for calibrating the ship's radar.

Thanks for changing the official Air Warriors record. My cruise book included a couple extra names for some reason.

 

[scoober78]

An interesting read for those interested and/or in the know about the future of ISR in Naval Aviation....looks pretty grim to me. Sad, but, I'm glad I made my move when I did.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20121106/C4ISR01/311060007

 

[P3 F0]

This doesn't come as a surprise, but it's still sad. I say this with increasing frequency nowadays--This isn't the Navy I joined. While I can't wait to retire, I still grind my teeth at all the glaring mistakes being made. Maybe I should look into a gig at the unmanned program office (if that exists) for my last tour.

 

[scoober78]

This doesn't come as a surprise, but it's still sad. I say this with increasing frequency nowadays--This isn't the Navy I joined. While I can't wait to retire, I still grind my teeth at all the glaring mistakes being made. Maybe I should look into a gig at the unmanned program office (if that exists) for my last tour.

The part that chaps my ass is the reason we are doing it...Bottom line to me, and the article suggests this is well...the ultimate reason isn't due to absolute cost savings. The numbers we're talking about just aren't that large in terms of the broader defense budget. Where they are significant is within the Navy budget. It seems clear to me that Navy leaders are playing a proprietary game. Nobody argues that the broader capability is important, it's that the Navy is tired of paying the freight for what amounts to half or maybe even more of our manned ISR. I really think it's a budgetary shell game...at least in large part.