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The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

Are you in favor of Universal Health Care?


  • Total voters
    221

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Massachusetts basically did this same thing a couple years back (buy insurance or get fined) and it drove a LOT of small business out of state (my family business included)

How many jobs is THIS going to drive offshore?
 

Hozer

Jobu needs a refill!
None
Contributor
My concern is that it's unclear how much a procedure costs these days. My kids pediatrician filed a $500 claim for a "checkup" and a simple test and tricare paid 1/4 of it. My copay was a fraction of that. I talked to the pediatrician's staff about it a few months later and they confirmed that they are happy to get that much from a provider.

I then asked them how can you stay in business if you get less than half what you bill? Then it occured to me that they must be inflating the cost in order to ensure they recoup enough to eek out a small profit.

I suspect this has to be industry-wide, so it begs a question. How much does a service really cost? Pay as you go, with catastrophe insurance would seem to be something worth examining. Perhaps the insurance folks are too well embedded in the political machine for that to become a reality.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
^ I think Hozer has hit the nail on the head re: medical insurance payments. At least that's been validated by 2 of my previous doctors ... not 'practitioners' ... these two were done practicing. :)

Plus ... if we could only figure out how to get and keep the millions of illegals out of the emergency rooms .... that might save a few bucks. A dollar here, a dollar there ... all of a sudden, you're talkin' REAL money !!! :sleep_125

When I was a kid; NO ONE had 'medical insurance' ... it was unheard of at the time. Pause for stupid covered wagon jokes .....

And while everyone paid as they went; I remember NO ONE losing everything (or in fact, anything) due to that ol' bogeyman .... 'catastrophic illnesses' ... and while most of my circle of 'friends' did not come from 'monied' families, everyone had timely and reasonable access to doctors and medical facilities.

In fact, the ONLY guys who had 'free' medical care that I can readily recall were the military and the politicians ... but nothing is really 'free' in this life, is it??? :)

*EDIT* ... oh, yeah -- one more suggestion: GET THE LAWYERS OUT OF THE 'PRACTICE' OF MEDICINE.

 

SkywardET

Contrarian
^ I think Hozer has hit the nail on the head re: medical insurance payments. At least that's been validated by 2 of my previous doctors ... not 'practitioners' ... these two were done practicing. :)

Plus ... if we could only figure out how to get and keep the millions of illegals out of the emergency rooms .... that might save a few bucks. A dollar here, a dollar there ... all of a sudden, you're talkin' REAL money !!! :sleep_125

When I was a kid; NO ONE had 'medical insurance' ... it was unheard of at the time. Pause for stupid covered wagon jokes .....

And while everyone paid as they went; I remember NO ONE losing everything (or in fact, anything) due to that ol' bogeyman .... 'catastrophic illnesses' ... and while most of my circle of 'friends' did not come from 'monied' families, everyone had timely and reasonable access to doctors and medical facilities.

In fact, the ONLY guys who had 'free' medical care that I can readily recall were the military and the politicians ... but nothing is really 'free' in this life, is it??? :)
This only validates what I have been studying recently. Now the cost of healthcare will increase dramatically due to an increase in demand with no substantial increase in supply. But hey, it's okay, you're covered now. Just flash that insurance card, don't worry about price...
 

Jeffe

Final Select 2009
Massachusetts basically did this same thing a couple years back (buy insurance or get fined) and it drove a LOT of small business out of state (my family business included)

How many jobs is THIS going to drive offshore?



I completely agree with you on this one...all speculation but I heard that Massachusetts' economy is in debt all due to the "state funded healthcare" they nearly had a depression or something of the sort...much like what California is going through...just my 2 cents.
 

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
My worry is that this "universal healthcare plan" will bankrupt the nation, will tank our healthcare, will give our government far more control, will drive the private insurance industry out of business, and will wreak havoc with the economy due to the amount of money they'll have to borrow to pay for it. They "say" it will cut health costs for businesses, but as has been mentioned, this sure didn't work in Massachusettes.

And then of course is the issue of, as I said, will it drive the private insurance industry out of business, thus forcing all of America onto a single-payer system (because that's the idea of a "universal healthcare program" or a "public option" to destroy private health insurance for the ultimate goal of single-payer).

They are talking about taxing healthcare benefits (after having lambasted McCain over this on the campaign trail). Only they have considered taxing non-unionized benefits.

This would essentially do the job of the "Employee Free Choice Act," which takes away a worker's right to a secret ballot vote, only without needing the act to be passed.

If they are going to leave unionized worker wages un-taxed, it will be far easier for someone to start up a union and people will be rushing to get into unions. It will be a HUGE payoff to organized labor.

Then there's the ridiculous cap-and-trade bill as well, that's a whole different issue. I really fear for the country's future right now to be honest.

As for healthcare, three things I know have drive up the cost:

1) Government intervention on state and federal level

2) So many fat people that there's a lot more obesity-related problems (we could shave trillions off the system if all of America would just lose some weight!)

3) We have far more high-tech healthcare equipment (such as MRIs) per capita than do countries with "universal" healthcare systems

I am really afraid for the country's future right now.
 

sodajones

Combat Engineer
Clips like this give real confidence in the financial judgment and accountability our government consistently provides.


A4, thank you for your post. Most of us young bucks have never seen or experienced a fiscally responsible government or society in general.
 

m0tbaillie

Former SWO
Your point?

If you're going to post a wall of text, at least bold the good bits and add in your own two cents. That is, if you have two cents to rub together. There are many facets of wasteful spending within the military and the gov't at large (Homeland Security, anyone?) that could easily be axed and would recoup billions of dollars for other purposes. So, I ask again, what's your point?
 

DukeAndrewJ

Divo without a division
Contributor
I would much rather our government spend money on a military that keeps us safe than paying for diabetes medicine for people that can't put down a donut (example - Mr. Frank).

Article I section 8 of the constitution: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...

I couldn't find anything about skimming some dollars of the top to pay for healthcare.

And if we can save some money on cutting down wasteful spending - rather than spending it on something else, how about just take less from the pot?
 

m0tbaillie

Former SWO
I would much rather our government spend money a military that keeps us safe than paying for diabetes medicine for people that can't put down a donut (example - Mr. Frank).

Article I section 8 of the constitution: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...

I couldn't find anything about skimming some dollars of the top to pay for healthcare.

And if we can save some money on cutting down wasteful spending - rather than spending it on something else, how about just take less from the pot?

You must not have looked too hard, then...

Ever received a bill from a hospital in the thousands or ten thousands and suddenly felt that sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach because it's more than you make in 6-12 months?

Try some compassion. Also, you should attempt to find better rationale than "hurr, fatties and donuts hurr"; try coming up with something halfway intelligent and save the drivel.
 

DukeAndrewJ

Divo without a division
Contributor
Ever received a bill from a hospital in the thousands or ten thousands and suddenly felt that sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach because it's more than you make in 6-12 months?

Try some compassion. Also, find better rationale than "hurr, fatties and donuts hurr". Don't bring that drivel here - try coming up with something halfway intelligent.

That's not drivel - we are the fattest nation in the world. Obesity is expensive. We pay the price.

And you wonder why that hospital bill was so high? Medicare pays doctors 70 cents on the dollar for services they perform; doctors don't just eat that expense - they pass it on to people with insurance. Put more people on medicare (or whatever government option you choose) and doctors will keep jacking up rates on everyone else. At a point there will be nobody else to raise the rates on and then we will just have less doctors. Then your bill might be cheaper, but you will have 8 months of waiting to think about it.
 

Jynx

*Placeholder*
Contributor
I than paying for diabetes medicine for people that can't put down a donut (example - Mr. Frank).
And if we can save some money on cutting down wasteful spending - rather than spending it on something else, how about just take less from the pot?

That's a bit over generalized, and very harsh. What about one such as myself? Because I'm underemployed and not yet in the Navy, I'm uninsured. I simply can't afford a plan for 6 months after food, business expenditures, helping with my sister's education, etc etc etc. I work as often as I can in self-employment, I wasn't uninsured until I graduated, and I'll be covered again when I commission. Either way, It's hard to say I'm not doing my level best to pull myself up by my own boot straps, and I'm definitely not taking more than I contribute to society.
I take good care of myself, running often, eating correctly, taking vitamins regularly, etc etc. However in the last few days a blister I had became infected and caused me to need expensive broad spectrum antibiotics. I wasn't mistreating myself, I just had bad luck. Every athelete gets blisters, usually they fade away. This one turned my thigh red and streaky. For many, that bad luck would mean that the only options are expensive bills, and the debt that would accompany. I myself don't even have a credit card that would let me put a sufficient balance on it for all the costs involved. Thanks to recent events, people making cash money right out of college aren't trusted with much credit, and my limits, even though I never carried a balance, got slashed. I couldn't have indebted myself to pay even if I wanted to.
Seeing as majority of the working uninsured are 20-30, do we really want people just starting their financial lives in earnest to have to overcome a bankruptcy or high interest loans because they had bad luck? Can't we accept that there's something wrong with a system wherein highly educated individuals in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world can't guarantee themselves affordable health care in the face of bad luck?
I completey understand your desire to see negligent people punished for their indolence, and I think most every country in the world has a policy to account for it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...coholic-22-died-refused-liver-transplant.html . Ignoring the sob story, I think the doctors made the right call, and I can fully get behind denying treatment to people who abuse themselves.
I think there are plenty of places the gov't can cut spending to provide for at least a safety net of some sort. It may not be a neccesity like defensive spending, but ensuring the health of the workforce is definately more worthwhile then some entitlements that have outgrown their purview. For example, Social Security at it's inception was for people who outlived their life expectancy by a year or more (life expectancy in 1930's was about 63, 64). Now it's an entitlement for on average 10-15 years. I'm sure you can think of many downright wasteful expenses that any alert taxpayer would agree to getting rid of from the Federal Budget.
PS, Thankfully, I have a friend whose parents were able to prescribe for free and get me a much needed discount at the pharmacy. I'm recovering very rapidly now.
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
If you're going to post a wall of text, at least bold the good bits and add in your own two cents. That is, if you have two cents to rub together.

Nice moderator impression for a wanna-be. -1.




You must not have looked too hard, then...

Try some compassion
. Also, you should attempt to find better rationale than "hurr, fatties and donuts hurr"; try coming up with something halfway intelligent and save the drivel.


-1 again. Your first post on this thread you are telling someone (in the form of an insult) to put their two cents in, and then when it comes time for you to back up something you have said (like maybe the part of the constitution that you feel applies), all you have is another insult. You stop lobbing insults just long enough to tell another poster to "Try some compassion." Are you kidding me? Oh, and I put the "good bits" in bold for you.

If you really want to save us some "drivel" push yourself away from the computer. You have never been subject to a military budget and have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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