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The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

Are you in favor of Universal Health Care?

  • Yes, having the state take care of all my needs is great.. No responsiblilty! Whee!

    Votes: 10 4.5%

  • Yes, its not going to cause the USA to be a socialist nation and would be better than the current.

    Votes: 36 16.3%

  • Where in the constitution does it say we have to do this?

    Votes: 54 24.4%

  • This is communist. I'll shiv whoever passes it (special option for SOG)

    Votes: 74 33.5%

  • Good idea, but the govt will screw it up and cost too much.

    Votes: 47 21.3%
  • Total voters
    221
Scoob

Scoob

If you gotta problem, yo, I'll be part of it.
pilot
Contributor
Flash said:
Canada:

Infant mortality rate:
total: 4.63 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 5.08 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 4.17 deaths/1,000 live births (2007 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 80.34 years
male: 76.98 years
female: 83.86 years (2007 est.)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ca.html#People

United States:

Infant mortality rate:
total: 6.37 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 7.02 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.68 deaths/1,000 live births (2007 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 78 years
male: 75.15 years
female: 80.97 years (2007 est.)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html#People
Click to expand...
Easily explained away by:
a. If not for the Detroit River...
b. Little brother syndrome (hey Spike!)
c. The deportation of Alan Thicke
d. The conspiratorial agenda of your source
 
Achilles

Achilles

That dog won't hunt, Monsignor!
pilot
HH-60H said:
Actually, you can't compare infant mortality rates between countries. There is no international standard and different countries count it different ways. In fact, the U.S. has a stricter standard which results in a higher infant mortality rate.

I will post a reference later this afternoon.
Click to expand...

To add to this, life expectancy at birth is calculated factoring in infant mortality rates. So the "lower" infant mortality rates can explain the longer life expectancy in Canada.
 
Spekkio

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Your own statistics prove my point. What exactly is your beef with how the pharmaceutical companies do business & what remedy do you propose? Ultimately, these firms shoulder the costs (however you choose to count them) of bringing these valuable products to the public and are entitled to charge whatever the market may bear. These products save countless lives and increase the quality of life for millions of people. The vast majority of people who can benefit from these drugs do so within the established system. While some may slip through the cracks, to impugn the entire system because of that seems ridiculous to me.
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You jumped on me for saying that pharmaceutical companies spend a lot more money on advertising than research. This is true, as given by the data I quoted. As a matter of fact, that pie graph is from 2002, which is before I remember seeing prescription drug ads on TV. I didn't know that putting commercials out for people who can't legally buy the product was part of the "costs of bringing these valuable products to the public." It is a physician's job to determine what medicine to prescribe for a patient, and no doctor worth his salt is going to write a script because his patient suggested a certain product he saw on TV.

It just bothers me when people have the misconception that our medicine is so expensive because of some elite "R&D" that our pharmacy companies are doing. That is far from the truth, and makes the companies look like the "good guys" in all this when they're a significant part of the overall equation driving healthcare costs through the roof.

The overall point is that I was agreeing with the poster before me that there are a few pharmacy companies at the top who can charge whatever they like for a pill. It's nearly impossible for someone else to enter the market. Anytime there is a hint of competition (such as Canadian drugs), Congress passes a law to protect our pharmacy companies.
 
R

Random8145

Registered User
If Canada's care works so perfectly, then why do so many Canadians come to America to get care...?

Perhaps we should just implement Dave Chappelle's healthcare solution: Free fake Canadian ID's for all Americans...:D
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Random8145 said:
If Canada's care works so perfectly, then why do so many Canadians come to America to get care...?

Perhaps we should just implement Dave Chappelle's healthcare solution: Free fake Canadian ID's for all Americans...:D
Click to expand...

How do you know this? Did you see it on a news report? Maybe the Drudge Report? Any empirical data? My wife knows no one who has done so. I am sure it happens, but probably I am certain it happens a lot less than you think. There are problems with Canadian health care to be sure, but on the whole it works quite well, as the statistics I have cited show......

Chappelle, he's a genius.......:D
 
BACONATOR

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Flash said:
How do you know this? Did you see it on a news report? Maybe the Drudge Report? Any empirical data? My wife knows no one who has done so. I am sure it happens, but probably I am certain it happens a lot less than you think. There are problems with Canadian health care to be sure, but on the whole it works quite well, as the statistics I have cited show......

Chappelle, he's a genius.......:D
Click to expand...

Yes, Flash, we all know your wife is canadian. However, I doubt she is the end-all, be-all expert on canadian health-care. My mother, who was a nurse in canada, can attest to the fact that with an 8-month wait for an MRI in canada (free as it may be), many crossed the border to get the healthcare they needed....
 
HH-60H

HH-60H

Manager
pilot
Contributor
bogey_spotter said:
Yes, Flash, we all know your wife is canadian. However, I doubt she is the end-all, be-all expert on canadian health-care. My mother, who was a nurse in canada, can attest to the fact that with an 8-month wait for an MRI in canada (free as it may be), many crossed the border to get the healthcare they needed....
Click to expand...
Oh, so your anecdotal evidence is better than his? I don't suppose anyone has any real sources, do they?
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
bogey_spotter said:
Yes, Flash, we all know your wife is canadian. However, I doubt she is the end-all, be-all expert on canadian health-care. My mother, who was a nurse in canada, can attest to the fact that with an 8-month wait for an MRI in canada (free as it may be), many crossed the border to get the healthcare they needed....
Click to expand...

No, I never said she was, but it is a hell of a lot better than the rampant and uninformed speculation that others on here were spouting.

I don't dispute that there are some flaws with the Canadian system, like waits for certain things, but overall the system has worked very well for my wife's family. And I am sure it has worked very poorly for some, as does the American system, but from what I have seen it works well. Not only that, as I noted before the health care system up there varies from province to province, so your mother's experience could be quite different than my wife's.

I was just trying to relate a first hand experience with the Canadian system when no one here seems to have had one.
 
scoober78

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
You guys and your f-in anecdotal evidence are killing me. Jesus...you get a large enough sampling group (like...oh...I don't know, Canada or the US!) and you can find people who will honestly and truthfully tell you damn near any viewpoint you can think of.

Anecdotal evidence isn't worth a @#$%. Stop using it.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
scoober78 said:
You guys and your f-in anecdotal evidence are killing me. Jesus...you get a large enough sampling group (like...oh...I don't know, Canada or the US!) and you can find people who will honestly and truthfully tell you damn near any viewpoint you can think of.

Anecdotal evidence isn't worth a @#$%. Stop using it.
Click to expand...

Well, when people do nothing but trash a system they know nothing about then I figured I would join in the game. Plus, I did put up some data, no one has refuted it.

And aren't anecdotes the AW way of doing things? :D
 
raptor10

raptor10

Philosoraptor
Contributor
A4sForever said:
Uhhhhhhh ... did you mean to put this on the "other" poll???

Or is this discussion on healthcare considered by some to be "torture"?? :)
Click to expand...
Wow... um, yeah my point was, uh, anecdotes about Canada's health care system should be filed under torture... :D
 
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