The Great Pirates off the Somali Coast thread

[navy09]

Is this really our problem? I get that we are the de facto "World Police," but it's a foreign ship being attacked by foreign nationals in a foreign land...

I certainly don't see how it warrants the use of high value assets such as a strike group or special warfare as some are suggesting.

If there were Americans involved or it was full-blown GWOT deal, sure, but it seems like we've got enough to deal with as it is.

 

[onedge]

Concur with all but it seems like an oportunity to build relations with saudis with a quick engagement. Board the boat, kill the bad guys, save the damsel, and establish dominance at sea... all in time for breakfast.

 

[Brett327]

Is this really our problem? I get that we are the de facto "World Police," but it's a foreign ship being attacked by foreign nationals in a foreign land...

I certainly don't see how it warrants the use of high value assets such as a strike group or special warfare as some are suggesting.

If there were Americans involved or it was full-blown GWOT deal, sure, but it seems like we've got enough to deal with as it is.

Freedom of the seas? Protecting international commerce? This is precisely what a navy is for and regardless of what flag flies above the victim vessel, this effects our interests. If there's not some kind of permanent US naval deterrent/patrol presence in the area w/i 12 months, I'll be very surprised.

Brett

 

[navy09]

Freedom of the seas? Protecting international commerce? This is precisely what a navy is for and regardless of what flag flies above the victim vessel, this effects our interests.

Got it...back to my corner.

 

[Brett327]

Got it...back to my corner.

Don't have to do that, just understand the bigger picture.

Brett

 

[The Chief]

Got it...back to my corner.

I will say! Naval History, aye.

.... to the shores of Tripoli .... we will fight our ... well you get the idea.

The Barbary Coast War was fought over this situation, piracy. England and France were paying the pirates to leave their ships alone, the newly independent United States of America fully intended to go along with this ransom deal but congress could not muster the money the Barbary States wanted. So we went over there and kicked some butt, with the help Sweden as I recall.

Anyone remeber the SS Mayaguez? Very shortly after the fall of Viet Nam to the Communist North? Kmer Rouge thought they had easy pickens and grabbed the ship on the high seas.

 

[Slammer2]

Looks like the Indians schwacked one

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/19/world/main4615754.shtml

 

[Flash]

The only thing the US Navy is doing is watching a ship that was carrying russian made weapons for some mid-east country. At least they're making sure none of those get out.

You are talking about the M/V Faina, a Ukrainian ship that was carrying 33 T-72's and other arms to Kenya or South Sudan, depending on who you talk to. It is definitely not the only thing we are doing off Somalia, but it is one of our priorities.

Why can't the SEALs just go get it back? I mean I am sure that there is a lot that goes in to an op like that but why not? Seems from my reading that that is what they are designed to do.

Because it ain't our ship. The owners and the country where the owners are from are the ones dealing with it, not us. Plus, the SEALs are fully engaged elsewhere.

 

[HeyJoe]

I will say! Naval History, aye.

.... to the shores of Tripoli .... we will fight our ... well you get the idea.

The Barbary Coast War was fought over this situation, piracy. England and France were paying the pirates to leave their ships alone, the newly independent United States of America fully intended to go along with this ransom deal but congress could not muster the money the Barbary States wanted. So we went over there and kicked some butt, with the help Sweden as I recall.

Anyone remeber the SS Mayaguez? Very shortly after the fall of Viet Nam to the Communist North? Kmer Rouge thought they had easy pickens and grabbed the ship on the high seas.

I remember it well from following action as it went down. Later, one of my instructors at TBS was one of the Marines sent to assault the island where the crew was thought to be held. Turns out they were somewhere else and in process of being released when Marines met with heavy fire resulting in numerous casualties. The ship assault went far better with insteresting boarding technique.

Using tactic from Barbary War, USS Holt pulled alongside so Marines could leap aboard while helos dropped more Marines onboard

Mayaguez incident from perspective of retaking of ship and more more on island assault and loss of helicopters

USAF HH-53 Helicopters lost in assault of island

 

[armada1651]

Has there been that dramatic of an increase in pirate activity lately? Or is it just that their capabilities have noticeably advanced? I mean, piracy off of East Africa has been a problem for years, but now suddenly ADM Mullen seems to be talking about it to the press a lot.

I don't know - maybe it was just the Faina incident that got the world interested in this situation. But it seems like there might be an attempt to drum up some public support for more dramatic action against these pirates. Just speculation.

Also, I vote we bring these guys in on this:

They know how to deal with pirates.

 

[SkywardET]

Capturing small or medium cargo ships is one thing, but the now seemingly regular capture of large cargo vessels and the capture of the epitome of international maritime trade, a ULCC, does denote an increase in the impact of the problem.

Why can't the SEALs just go get it back? I mean I am sure that there is a lot that goes in to an op like that but why not? Seems from my reading that that is what they are designed to do.

While true that it could occur, I believe it is unlikely. As Flash said, SEALs are fully engaged elsewhere where the connection to our interests is much more direct, like in Afghanistan.

But as Brett has said, one of our strategic missions as the US Navy is protection and freedom of the seas. I truly hope we do get more involved with this, but I know that force alone cannot possibly overcome this problem. Looking at it from the Somali side, if you take away what is essentially a budding industry, you will lose "jobs" and reduce "GDP" which will only increase the domestic problems there. It's the same reason why opium production is so prevalent in Afghanistan. What else can an individual of either of those countries do to provide for their family and earn a living? Such alternative options need to be created from something, and political stability is necessary for that.

 

[Single Seat]

Capturing small or medium cargo ships is one thing, but the now seemingly regular capture of large cargo vessels and the capture of the epitome of international maritime trade, a ULCC, does denote an increase in the impact of the problem.


While true that it could occur, I believe it is unlikely. As Flash said, SEALs are fully engaged elsewhere where the connection to our interests is much more direct, like in Afghanistan.

But as Brett has said, one of our strategic missions as the US Navy is protection and freedom of the seas. I truly hope we do get more involved with this, but I know that force alone cannot possibly overcome this problem. Looking at it from the Somali side, if you take away what is essentially a budding industry, you will lose "jobs" and reduce "GDP" which will only increase the domestic problems there. It's the same reason why opium production is so prevalent in Afghanistan. What else can an individual of either of those countries do to provide for their family and earn a living? Such alternative options need to be created from something, and political stability is necessary for that.

There's a big difference between a farmer trying to feed his family, and a band of pirates funding a war.

 

[DanMa1156]

Has there been that dramatic of an increase in pirate activity lately? Or is it just that their capabilities have noticeably advanced? I mean, piracy off of East Africa has been a problem for years, but now suddenly ADM Mullen seems to be talking about it to the press a lot.

I don't know - maybe it was just the Faina incident that got the world interested in this situation. But it seems like there might be an attempt to drum up some public support for more dramatic action against these pirates. Just speculation.

Also, I vote we bring these guys in on this:

They know how to deal with pirates.

Pirate attacks have indeed been on the rise (many sources on that one) over the past decade, but you can be sure that the CNO and ADM Mullen have been talking about it - keep in mind they are trying to get up to a 313 (?) ship Navy and we're retiring ships faster than we're making them at this point and facing cost overruns and increasing unit costs on what we are buying... definitely a bid to get more Congressional money, though, for good reason.

 

[Flash]

I have to laugh a little bit at those who say we should go all out against he pirates. I think few of you realize how far down the priority list piracy really is when it comes to our concerns. It is a lot further down the list than say terrorism, weapons proliferation and not to mention the two wars we are fighting. It will probably get a lot more attention now, but it is still nowhere near the top of the 'I care' list.

 

[nittany03]

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