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The Great, Constantly Changing Picture Gallery, Troisième partie: la vengeance!

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Squadrons were divided up into six three-aircraft sections.

Honest question...I'm not trying to be a smart ass.

Was the definition of a section and a division changed some time later? I was under the impression a division (3 or more) harked back to the days of WWII, but I'm not educated enough to know if it went back farther than that.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Honest question...I'm not trying to be a smart ass.

Was the definition of a section and a division changed some time later? I was under the impression a division (3 or more) harked back to the days of WWII, but I'm not educated enough to know if it went back farther than that.
I thought the distinction happened during WWII when the Navy abandoned the RAF-style triads and adopted four-aircraft divisions but I’m honestly not positive either.

TBH, most of what I learned about pre-war Navy markings was from reference books when I was really into model-building. Had more fun painting the 1930s schemes than the dull blue/gray wartime ones.
 

Llarry

Well-Known Member
I thought the distinction happened during WWII when the Navy abandoned the RAF-style triads and adopted four-aircraft divisions but I’m honestly not positive either.

TBH, most of what I learned about pre-war Navy markings was from reference books when I was really into model-building. Had more fun painting the 1930s schemes than the dull blue/gray wartime ones.
Jimmy Thach invented the four-plane division and the two-plane section in 1941-42. leading to the abandonment of the three-aircraft division.

Two aircraft abeam at about the radius of turn; if one is attacked, the other turns into the enemy to get the bandit off the wingman's tail. Same thing if one section of a division is attacked -- the other section turns in. Thus the "finger four".
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
I thought the distinction happened during WWII when the Navy abandoned the RAF-style triads and adopted four-aircraft divisions but I’m honestly not positive either.

TBH, most of what I learned about pre-war Navy markings was from reference books when I was really into model-building. Had more fun painting the 1930s schemes than the dull blue/gray wartime ones.
I’ll see if I can find it, but the answer is so complicated that there is an actual academic thesis on the topic. Basically the collision of naval treaties, carrier development in the US, rapid advances in aircraft technology (the arrival of the monoplane), and tactics was solidified by 1940 when the navy realized it was smarter to add more aircraft to a squadron than more squadrons to a carrier. With reference to the VF community specifically, it was codified with the introduction of the Thach Weave where squadrons started operating in sections of two (not three) to create divisions of four. Other carrier communities shifted to echelons of four especially after carrier scouting squadrons gave way to just bombing squadrons along with torpedo squadrons on a carrier deck. It gets real messy when you get to escort carriers and the creation of composite (VC) squadrons that had their own tactics. Still, the Navy didn’t routinely use the term “division” with reference to aviation squadrons during the war.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I happen to prefer the world war, one practice of tying, a a colored streamer to the wing strut, identifying the flight leader. somewhere I must have a picture of a blue streamer tied to the wing strut of my Luscombe
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
I happen to prefer the world war, one practice of tying, a a colored streamer to the wing strut, identifying the flight leader. somewhere I must have a picture of a blue streamer tied to the wing strut of my Luscombe
What @wink feels when flying his Luscombe!

IMG_1714.jpeg
 

GroundPounder

Well-Known Member
This one has been converted for passengers (4 star types). Did the navy convert more than one?
  • A3D-2T (TA-3B): 12 bomber-trainer versions. Five later converted as VIP transports (two redesignated UTA-3B).
VA-3B: Two EA-3B converted as VIP transports. Both aircraft were assigned to the Chief of Naval Operations flying from Andrews AFB in Washington, DC


It looks like the one in the picture was one of 2, for that purpose. But my source is Wikipedia, so could be wrong.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
  • A3D-2T (TA-3B): 12 bomber-trainer versions. Five later converted as VIP transports (two redesignated UTA-3B).
VA-3B: Two EA-3B converted as VIP transports. Both aircraft were assigned to the Chief of Naval Operations flying from Andrews AFB in Washington, DC


It looks like the one in the picture was one of 2, for that purpose. But my source is Wikipedia, so could be wrong.
Pretty cool that the CNO could take off from Andrews and fly out to (and land on) a carrier in relative comfort.
 
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