Tacair / E2/C2 Career Progression

[Godspeed]

I did a search for this, but didn't have any luck...

I was hoping someone could chime in and walk me through (Barney style) the general career progression of a Naval Aviator after completion of the tailhook program... I know there are multiple paths one can take as the career progresses, but i'm more interested about the first eight years after winging.

I've heard a brief summary, "Well you'll do a sea tour, then a shore tour, then a disassociated sea tour," but that's about it. If someone could cover this stuff in more detail and explain it, i'd be greatly appreciative...

I feel like I understand what happens up to completion of the RAG, but i've never understood exactly what happens after this.


Thanks in advance.

GS

 

[Single Seat]

I did a search for this, but didn't have any luck...

I was hoping someone could chime in and walk me through (Barney style) the general career progression of a Naval Aviator after completion of the tailhook program... I know there are multiple paths one can take as the career progresses, but i'm more interested about the first eight years after winging.

I've heard a brief summary, "Well you'll do a sea tour, then a shore tour, then a disassociated sea tour," but that's about it. If someone could cover this stuff in more detail and explain it, i'd be greatly appreciative...

I feel like I understand what happens up to completion of the RAG, but i've never understood exactly what happens after this.


Thanks in advance.

GS

There's no short answer here. From a TACAIR perspective:

RAG for probably a year or a little less
Fleet tour for 36 month (3 years for you math majors)

This is where the line divides. You can go the Topgun route, Test Pilot School, Training Command, RAG IP, Adversary Squadron, Exchange tour.

The common ones are RAG and Topgun.

If you go RAG, you'll work your orders from there after 2 years or so. Maybe try and get on with a CAG staff, maybe get tasked for IA, etc.

Topgun and you'll go to a SFTI (Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor) tour, either as a staff member at NSAWC or Strike in Fallon, east or west coast weapons school, or a RAG. After that tour, you incure a 2 year commitment as a training officer in a fleet squadron, then move on to DH.

TPS, you'll go to the school house for a year, then a VX squadron some where.

Adversary, same as RAG. Find your own program from there. Most guys I've seen go that route were on their way to the reserves.

PEP tour is an exchange with a foreign country or USAF. The ones I've seen are Eagles, Vipers, A-10's with the USAF, Hornets in Australia, Switzerland, Spain, Canada, Finland, Tornados in the UK, Harriers in the UK, Rafale and Super E's with the French.

To answer your question, there are 100 different ways to go. It's all about what you want to do, where you want your career to go.

 

[Flash]

1st tour - Fleet squadron.

2nd Tour - A lot of where you go depends how you did on your first, and what you want to do. If you did well you might be encouraged to do a few things:

-RAG Instructor
-Weapons School Instructor/NSAWC
-VT Instructor (especially if pilot)

Notice there is a trend there, all of them are 'production' or intructor billets and they all keep you in the 'family/community' to some degree. Out of sight, out of mind is often not a good thing, even in the Navy.

Other 'good' ones, though less common, could be:

-ADM's aide (you are generally asked to do it)
-Type Staff (can depend on community, some like but some don't)
-Fellowship/Internship/School Program (pretty rare)
-TPS

If you don't want to go that route you could have a few other choices which vary from good to bad to neutral. It largely depends on your community and timing but most are neutral to bad in times like these:

-Naval Postgraduate School
-NROTC tour
-DC staff (can be good, can be bad, depends on the staff)
-Other staffs and random 'filler' jobs
-PEP tour

At that point you will usually be out to 8 years in your career, and where you have to make your first decision about staying in or not. The next tour up is usually a 'disassociated sea tour', where you go out to sea again but usually not in your primary job. Many Prowler guys I know ended up on a seagoing staff as an EWO or strike ops/TAO on a carrier. A few guys ended up on CAG staff and a few lucky pilots get to do a CAG LSO tour. Agfter that, if you get lucky enough, you will do a department head tour back in your original community. By then you are out to about 13-14 years at the end of your DH tour. After that is another discussion.

There are a lot of generalities in the summary above but that is what I have seen. Others can definitely flesh it out a bit. Is that good?

 

[bunk22]

As far as C-2 goes, very standard:

-Sea tour--VRC-30 or VRC-40
-Shore tour--skies the limit but if you want to fly and make it count for your career, VAW-120 or any of the fixed wing VT's
-Disassociated tour--Shooter tour, Strike/CAG staff, etc
-DH tour--VRC-30 or VRC-40
-Post DH tour--War College, Joint Tour, flying tour (depending but now days not good for O-5 boards), etc
-Sea Tour--probably disassociated, IA/GSA, etc
-Command or Non-Command tour or if a terminal O-4, one last flying tour if so desired

You want O-5 or command, have to play the game and go with the flow. It's getting more difficult to make O-4 and DH now days so it might take playing the game. I was a t-notch guy, blew my knee out med down guy and thus late to the fleet. Never had a disassociated tour and that was bad for the career or at least for rank.

 

[Uncle Fester]

In general: flying is better than not flying, and flying within your community (RAG, WTI) is better than not (VTs, VX, C-12's, PEP). YMMV.

The progression for any Tailhook community is pretty much the same (Fleet, Shore, Disassociated, DH, etc). The specific jobs depend on the community, and go in and out of fashion as to what's "career enhancing". It's all about trying to predict what will look good to promotion and screen boards 5, 10, 15 years down the road. I've seen more than one deserving O-4 get screwed because what was a good-to-neutral tour when he was a JO was not so much by the time he was up for CO Screen. And vice-versa; I know O-6's who took frowned-upon jobs for their JO Shore job, but by the time they came up for Screen, those had become trendy jobs and they looked like forward thinkers.

And then there's all the guys who did everything they were supposed to do, took the hard-fill jobs and broke out well. Then they get screwed because of timing or something else completely out of their control.

My philosophy is: take the jobs that you want, as much as Millington will let you. Will a PEP gig in Australia ever look better than a RAG tour? No, but look at it this way: if you take the soul-crushing jobs to further your career and then get screwed by factors beyond your control, are you any better off than you would have been if you'd spent several years booming around the Outback and flying home to your Aussie girlfriend?

 

[Single Seat]

I can't think of a single Hornet guy that's done a disassociated sea tour FWIW.

 

[bunk22]

In general: flying is better than not flying, and flying within your community (RAG, WTI) is better than not (VTs, VX, C-12's, PEP). YMMV.

I respectfully disagree as far as my community goes. IMO, flying with the VT's is much better than FRS flying. Great gouge on things other than just stay Navy, great flying, less bullshit, etc. I've now done the FRS IP thing and the VT thing and I'd take the VT tour 3 times over the FRS tour. This is only from my community perspective though.

The progression for any Tailhook community is pretty much the same (Fleet, Shore, Disassociated, DH, etc). The specific jobs depend on the community, and go in and out of fashion as to what's "career enhancing". It's all about trying to predict what will look good to promotion and screen boards 5, 10, 15 years down the road. I've seen more than one deserving O-4 get screwed because what was a good-to-neutral tour when he was a JO was not so much by the time he was up for CO Screen. And vice-versa; I know O-6's who took frowned-upon jobs for their JO Shore job, but by the time they came up for Screen, those had become trendy jobs and they looked like forward thinkers.

And then there's all the guys who did everything they were supposed to do, took the hard-fill jobs and broke out well. Then they get screwed because of timing or something else completely out of their control.

My philosophy is: take the jobs that you want, as much as Millington will let you. Will a PEP gig in Australia ever look better than a RAG tour? No, but look at it this way: if you take the soul-crushing jobs to further your career and then get screwed by factors beyond your control, are you any better off than you would have been if you'd spent several years booming around the Outback and flying home to your Aussie girlfriend?

I respectfully, absolutely agree with this assessment. Do what you like but just know the consequences of such actions. A friend did a joint job, war college, hung it all out there, not happy and didn't screen. Then again, if you don't hang em out there, you'll never know. He would have made a horrible CO anyway so it worked out for the better IMO but I'd rather fly than be put in a job where I was miserable just to make rank. To each his own though.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I respectfully disagree as far as my community goes. IMO, flying with the VT's is much better than FRS flying. Great gouge on things other than just stay Navy, great flying, less bullshit, etc. I've now done the FRS IP thing and the VT thing and I'd take the VT tour 3 times over the FRS tour. This is only from my community perspective though.

Right...I meant "better" as in, better for the career and better as far as screen boards go. Better for the individual aviator is a whole 'nother thing.

I can't think of a single Hornet guy that's done a disassociated sea tour FWIW.

Do you mean by that, a ship's company tour? Because I've usually seen CAG Staff/CAG Paddles lumped in as "Disassociated" tours. Pretty much, any sea tour that's not with a Squadron. I have seen one or two Hornet/Rhino guys as Shooters.

 

[onedge]

While we're at it, can anyone here answer that question with respect to HSC community?

 

[Godspeed]

While we're at it, can anyone here answer that question with respect to HSC community?

I like the honesty... +1 for the least subtle thread jacking attempt i've seen to date :icon_wink

 

[Jim123]

If two wrongs don't make a right...

Then what does a threadjack to a threadjack make?

As far as helo career path goes, more or less the same as what's already been covered here for TACAIR/COD/VAW. Some of the dissociated sea tour billets available are helo oriented.

Be careful what you wish for though. I'm a believer in the school of thought of picking what _you_ want to do (with the usual caveats about straying from the beaten path). If you spend your career second guessing what "the board" or "the tank" might or might not want ten years from now, you might get one more promotion out of the game before it's time to retire but you might end up miserable too. Besides, if you pick jobs that are jobs you actually like, you'll probably do better at them anyway.

Different strokes for different folks, but the zen answer comes down to what you and only _you_ want out of life. When you come to a fork in the career path and one of the choices is something you really want, then you do what Yogi Bera said...


edit: PS--Mods--thanks for the wings.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I can't think of a single Hornet guy that's done a disassociated sea tour FWIW.

I know of just one.....did a shooter tour

 

[HH-60H]

I don't WTF you guys (FLYTPAY & Uncle Fester) are talking about. SS is a seasoned Hornet driver who knows his community inside and out. It's impossible to think that he could be wrong and you correct.

 

[bunk22]

I know of just one.....did a shooter tour

I think we had a hornet shooter on my 01 cruise. Rare to see as I recall.

 

[MasterBates]

My career- (non standard)

FY
01 Commission
02-03 Flight School/RAG
04-07 HSL Fleet Tour
07-08 VT "Tour"
09 VAW RAG
*09-12 "Supa Jo" VAW Tour
*12-13 RAG or IA Tour
*13-15 DH Tour

* Means not happened yet, but best guess from Detailer. It's non-standard if you have not picked up on that.