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T-45C Replacement

sevenhelmet

Far from this opera for evermore...
pilot
(artist's rendering of an F-16 in Navy paint)
The V1600 project! I saw a full size mockup years ago...it had crazy beefy landing gear and the tail hook was more toward the center of the fuselage.
I assume you mean further forward on the airplane, and therefore closer to the main landing gear? Sounds like a recipe for a lot of hook skips due to the dynamics of rolling over the arresting gear cable you're trying to catch... good thing nobody ever made THAT mistake with an airplane.

🤣
 

Griz882

Livin' On the Right Side of the River From Pags!
pilot
I assume you mean further forward on the airplane, and therefore closer to the main landing gear? Sounds like a recipe for a lot of hook skips due to the dynamics of rolling over the arresting gear cable you're trying to catch... good thing nobody ever made THAT mistake with an airplane.

🤣
That sounds about right. It was, as I recall, just a mock-up. I don’t think they ever actually built one.
 

hdr777

Well-Known Member

FinkUFreaky

Well-Known Member
pilot
Thanks for the info. I'm an E2/C2 student and there is zero way I go to the boat by January.

I really hope the first time I go to the boat is not in an E2.
I feel for you and others if that ends up happening; can't imagine if the first time I went was in that pig. I'm sure plenty of pioneers have done more though! And honestly, a little secret... you need to have the skills and ability to land it, but I'm pretty sure nobody in my E-2 class would have CQ'd without a lot of real-time coaching from the RAG instructors. Some helped more than others, but all were instrumental. You won't be trusted to land five dudes on the boat when you show up to your fleet sqadron on day one either way. Even if immediately deployed, your senior JO/O4+ will be helping you more than you know.
 

ChuckMK23

Well-Known Member
pilot
Well written. From the outside looking in I agree that the training pipeline needs to be compressed and your professional point of view adds to that in connecting how modern combat aviation has changed.
I think the need to apply combat skills development in undergraduate pilot training transcends just Strike. We historically take a divergent path from our AF and Army peers in developing anything more than Commercial Pilot skills in the Multi Engine and Helo pipeline.

A refreshing take.
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I like the proposal, and it makes sense. I am not familiar with the failure modes of PLM, but I assume they are robust. My only concern is the E-2/C-2 pilots. Having their first traps in the fleet airplane is a recipe for mishaps. The plane is large and unforgiving of errors. Completing CQ in the T-45 is a good stepping stone approach. I fear that this will be abandoned in the interest of $$$.
 

Farva01

BKR
pilot
I like the proposal, and it makes sense. I am not familiar with the failure modes of PLM, but I assume they are robust. My only concern is the E-2/C-2 pilots. Having their first traps in the fleet airplane is a recipe for mishaps. The plane is large and unforgiving of errors. Completing CQ in the T-45 is a good stepping stone approach. I fear that this will be abandoned in the interest of $$$.
I had a blurb about the need for the E2/C2 but took it out to keep the article on point. I don't disagree that is a hard problem to solve. Maybe keep a small number of T-45's on line in Norfolk for the E2/C2 (really just E2 here soon) bubbas?
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Great article Farva. Your biggest selling point is T-7 cost to fly/maintain vs. grey Fleet jet costs. Sounds like you need to sell it to CNATRA and the Air Boss because it makes sense and in the end it will save money and make better FRPs.
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
My only concern is the E-2/C-2 pilots. Having their first traps in the fleet airplane is a recipe for mishaps. The plane is large and unforgiving of errors. Completing CQ in the T-45 is a good stepping stone approach. I fear that this will be abandoned in the interest of $$$.
Maybe similar to the idea of sending Marine Hornet pilots with a carrier follow-on commitment to a post-winging CQ?

How about:
  • E-2/C-2 pilots graduate with their class having never been to the boat (like everyone else)... however, the procedures and techniques of carrier landings would have been taught from the first landing in the T-45.
  • After winging, remain at Kingsville / Meridian and go through a focused CQ syllabus that finalizes preps for the boat, and gets them their 10 traps.
  • Off to FRS success.
Just tell the AF guy to shut up if this is stupid.
I got to actually fly a few landings in T-2, T-45, F-18B/D/F (as well as watch a few in the TA-4J), and I sure wish I could have had the opportunity to try to land on the carrier. Frickin' fun... and cool.
And hard.
 

DanMa1156

Land of the rising sun. Literally. There's no DST!
pilot
Contributor
I think the need to apply combat skills development in undergraduate pilot training transcends just Strike. We historically take a divergent path from our AF and Army peers in developing anything more than Commercial Pilot skills in the Multi Engine and Helo pipeline.

A refreshing take.
When I left the HTs this was a huge talking point, but the problem was just so many different types of missions and services to train to - AH-1, UH-1, MH-60S, MH-6R, HH-60J (or the follow-on for the USCG), HH-65, MH-53 (with multiple variants and mission sets), MV-22 and now the CMV-22. I am sure they are still looking into it, but it was mixed responses from Wing leadership every year at NHA, so in the end, everyone settles on brilliance at the basics. I would like to see it change; if there's a place where an intermediate and advanced could make sense - surely the HTs fit with all the basics of helicopter flying, then follow-on training on some specific profiles (CAS, a real SAR syllabus instead of the 1 intro flight; I think the NVD and forms syllabi are pretty good, not sure how you could teach dipping or anything like that, but also some basic Excess Power management flights would be good).
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
I had an interesting data point, ran a mission training a cadre to operate an upper tier drone, left (pilot) and right (ball operator) seat, and we had a mix of winged aviators and others go through the training. Out of 15 to go through the training, we had 3 fail. Winged aviators. Helo guy, Hoover NFO, I forget the other pilot's community.

The number one grad was a guy who was a DCO, worked as a flight test engineer in his day job. No mil operator experience prior to that. Lots of Xbox.

Being a good drone operator was all about being able to take the sparse input and build a worldview in the noggin, then act on it. Good stick and rudder didn't automagically transfer over.
 
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