If this descends into an academy v. NROTC v. OCS furball the thread's getting locked.
Such discussions are like trying to argue whose favorite color is best.
Such discussions are like trying to argue whose favorite color is best.
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Sunk cost versus attrition
- Thread starter torpedo0126
- Start date
AMEN phrog... sidenote terminated.
Assuming for the sake of argument that all newly commissioned officers have the same potential no matter what the commissioning source, it's a lot easier to explain away attriting someone who cost the Navy $10,000 than someone who cost the Navy several hundred thousand dollars. And at some level I guarantee that is a factor.
I think you're missing the point of this thread. It's really not easier to explain away. All expenses associated with putting gold bars on someone's collar are a sunk cost as soon as you do.
I don't think you understand the concept of SUNK COSTS, because if you did, you wouldn't be saying this... To make it simple, think of it in terms of shares of stock....
Person A went out and bought 500 shares of stock in the Ford Motor Company before this recession lets say.... The 500 shares of stock cost this person $100,000...
Person B went out and bought 500 shares of the same stock after the recession, except he paid $10,000...
At the end of the day, 'how much' each person paid means absolutely dick; they are each holding 500 shares of stock in the same company....
Makes was saying that two fresh Ensigns hold absolutely the same value to the government...
As for the academy guys:
I'm not going to knock where you guys went to school. All I know is that it's a highly ranked school, and it has produced its share of the best officers this country has seen (historically speaking).
I'm an OCS guy. I think its obvious that at one point in time, you fellas had a better resume than I did, probably from working your asses off in high school. An appointment to the Naval Academy is hard to earn (for those that worked to earn it). Now I never applied to the academy, but I probably wouldn't have made it.
I'm not going to blow a ton of smoke up your asses by giving you props, you don't need the affirmation from me, as clearly evident by your experiences.
I will tell you that although you earned a full ride at a very prestigious school, and dealt with all the BS you had to put up with all along the way (had your 'scholarship' shoved up your asses one nickel at a time). When you and I are standing tall in front of the man for doing something equally as stupid, your head is going to roll just as quickly as mine.
The Renegade
LT, SC, USN
I was reading the Navy Times a few weeks ago and it said that in officer re-designator boards in 2007, over 370 officers were retained or re-designated, and 14 were separated. That increased last year when 300 officers were re-designated or retained and 22 were separated. But so far this year, the separated has jumped considerably to 60… yeah, 60 out of 88 officers reviewed were separated at these boards and we are only months into the year.This is not a game… if you are a shit bag then you will be going home, doesn’t matter if you went to the USNA, ROTC, or whatever.
I understand the theory of "sunk costs." What I am saying is that, whether it should or not, it WILL make a difference to some degree how much someone has cost up to this point. That's just the nature of the beast.
"Makes was saying that two fresh Ensigns hold absolutely the same value to the government"
Not in the sense that the government (in this case as represented by the Navy) is going to be less willing to admit a $200,000 mistake (or whatever the Academy costs now) than they will a $10,000.
The point is that, all other things being equal, the Navy is going to protect the larger investment. Otherwise it becomes harder to justify the larger investment. It may not make sense from a purely logical sense, but that's the way the system works.
I've sat on plenty of PRBs here at NASC. Commissioning source makes absolutely no difference to a PRB in a recc to keep or attrite. The only considerations are performance to up to that point in the Program, any human factors, and the appearance/attitude of the PRB-ee in question.
The only way it's ever come up is if an Academy guy shows up looking like Joe Shit the Ragman. Then it warrants commenting upon for the fact that they've been having their uniform inspected at least once a week for the last four years, and now can't dress themselves? Doesn't speak well for potential.
The only way it's ever come up is if an Academy guy shows up looking like Joe Shit the Ragman. Then it warrants commenting upon for the fact that they've been having their uniform inspected at least once a week for the last four years, and now can't dress themselves? Doesn't speak well for potential.
torpedo0126
Member
i would like to point out that i DID NOT START THIS THREAD. someone quoted me from some other thread where I was just offering something I had heard. Obviously it was wrong, so I apologize.
but i didn't start this thread to discuss this
but i didn't start this thread to discuss this
Now say you got a masters degree on the navy's dime...does that make you more valuable to the government from a cost/value standpoint?
No. Except insomuch as you're obligated to several extra years' service by way of repayment.
PRBs, I agree, especially about appearance/attitude. (Did two or three boards in the TRACOM and wrote a up a few grade sheets and counseling sheets with just such a possibility in mind... come to think of it, by definition all grade sheets/documentation/etc. had the proverbial "board" in mind.)
"Congressionals," those are a different animal and not always logical. (Saw a couple people come back after those... frustrating... just like a punching clown that stands up again or that piece of driftwood that won't quite sink... I give 'em credit for perseverance but please, honorably serve your country some other way because you're simply not cut out for aviation.)
Just curious, what are you talking about?
About every few years* an attrite would petition his/her Congressman, and it would eventually come back to the Navy to address it. I think these got handled by the wing and/or CNATRA staff. Sometimes the kind got put back in the pipeline, sometimes not.
*We had one in our squadron. Names/places not included to protect the innocent. I got the distinct impression that while unusual this wasn't unheard of. PM sent.