Sunk cost versus attrition

[torpedo0126]

While I dont disagree with all of the things being said, im not going to stress about it. They have already put money into us whether through the academy, rotc scholarships, or ocs.

I know someone who went to a board just recently and he said that he was informed that the amount of money invested in you has a huge impact on the outcome of the board. For instance, a 4-year degree from a private institution that the Navy paid for will bear more weight than a 2-yr scholarship to a cheaper public in-state school.

Makes sense, even though it sucks. But again, that is only if you end up going to a board.

 

[C420sailor]

I know someone who went to a board just recently and he said that he was informed that the amount of money invested in you has a huge impact on the outcome of the board. For instance, a 4-year degree from a private institution that the Navy paid for will bear more weight than a 2-yr scholarship to a cheaper public in-state school.

Makes sense, even though it sucks. But again, that is only if you end up going to a board.

So four years at $40,000 a year---I should be able to destroy how many aircraft before getting the boot?

 

[Goober]

I know someone who went to a board just recently and he said that he was informed that the amount of money invested in you has a huge impact on the outcome of the board. For instance, a 4-year degree from a private institution that the Navy paid for will bear more weight than a 2-yr scholarship to a cheaper public in-state school.

Makes sense, even though it sucks. But again, that is only if you end up going to a board.

Couldn't disagree more. Your commissioning source has zero influence, i.e. "Well, we've already spent this much on the guy..." There's no issue with cutting losses and moving on. As an FRS DH I'm frequently the senior member of student review boards, and I can tell you I'm an equal opportunity hammer if you deserve it. If you warrant the help/2nd chance - fine. If you're a douchebag - you probably won't get my vote. In the end, it's my recommendation that's going to the CO/Commodore, and I can assure you they don't care who gave you the job. If you're a dirtbag, they don't want you tanking their careers too (much less want to fly with you or want you in their community).

 

[FlyinSpy]

Couldn't disagree more. Your commissioning source has zero influence, i.e. "Well, we've already spent this much on the guy..." There's no issue with cutting losses and moving on.

Concur. This is a classic example of what economists call the "sunk cost fallacy". The cost of getting you to commissioning can't be recovered, so it shouldn't factor into decisions as to whether you stay or go. Goober is clearly either an econ major, or just gets an above for headwork....

 

[fc2spyguy]

Couldn't disagree more. Your commissioning source has zero influence, i.e. "Well, we've already spent this much on the guy..." There's no issue with cutting losses and moving on. As an FRS DH I'm frequently the senior member of student review boards, and I can tell you I'm an equal opportunity hammer if you deserve it. If you warrant the help/2nd chance - fine. If you're a douchebag - you probably won't get my vote. In the end, it's my recommendation that's going to the CO/Commodore, and I can assure you they don't care who gave you the job. If you're a dirtbag, they don't want you tanking their careers too (much less want to fly with you or want you in their community).

I'm just guessing here, but I'm willing to be he's refering to a redes board vice an FPC or something of that nature.

 

[cfam]

I don't think it really makes a difference where you graduated from, at least currently. I know of two USNA grads and one ROTC grad (two SNAs and a SNFO) that have gone before re-des boards since I've been in Pensacola, and all have been separated from the Navy.

 

[phrogdriver]

I still think the sunk cost principle would apply. The quality of education might matter a little, depending on the reason for redes, i.e. he's was attrited for, say NPQ or airsickness, and a guy with evidence of some brains might be worth shipping off for intel or something.

I can say that having sat on several review boards in Advanced, commissioning source made zero difference. I will caveat that with one example. There was a prior recon corpsman going through at the same time as me. He'd done DS, Somalia, etc, and had more ribbons than the CO. The board gave him the benefit of the doubt in spite of multiple pink sheets (his jacket was a watermelon before MPTS made the term meaningless).

 

[bunk22]

What kind of board?

 

[MAKE VAPES]

I think...

The bottom line is math; Do they have a surplus of "human capital" walking in the front door, weighted for attrition throughout training pipelines?

If yes, ssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ya without regard to whatever snooooty or dumbshit school you go to.

If no, attriting folks is difficult to do. It always was in Advanced Strike Training. Kids who I was pretty sure were going to die a horrible fiery death (hopefully not taking anyone with them) were pushed off to FRSs with multiple hail Marys that they would make it. Being the "crippled soul" I am, I wanted no future blood on my hands and voted to send these NTACs or "Id rather be a dead jet pilot than a live helo pilots" packing.

The sanctity of the fraternity matters (sometimes it acts more like a sorority).

 

[navy09]

The sunk cost principle definitely applies here. Once commissioned, the $200K USNA grad should be as expendable as the free OCS guy. It's in the Navy's best interest to keep the best officers. Still, that probably makes too much sense for them.

From the STUD's perspective, I can understand the USNA guy feeling more entitled than the ROTC guy (and both feeling more entitled than the OCS guy). Is that right? I dunno, I'm just a dumb Mid.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Side note: When it comes to leading troops, the troops (from my experience) cringe at USNA officers. A mass gaggle of troops and a handful of JO's are the ones you are/will be leading. I haven't ever witnessed anything one commisioning source provides over another, except scirosis, getting laid and wear of uniforms one day a week vice 7.

I've heard more than a few "listen here CHIEF!" s come out of Freddies Finishing School for Boat Chug graduates, they usually ended up apologizing later.

 

[armada1651]

I think...

The bottom line is math...

I think what you're trying to say is that there's a lot of ins and outs, a lot of what-have-you's.

 

[Goober]

I'm just guessing here, but I'm willing to be he's refering to a redes board vice an FPC or something of that nature.

Ok, I'll bite. So it's a redes board vice an academic attrite. How tough is it to get an OCS slot for anything non-URL these days? If you're leaving your community due to an invitation to "find something else to do that doesn't involve us" by the powers that be, what are the odds the would-be community would say yes? To put it another way, what are the odds that the aviation community would accept someone else's "no-thank-yous?" We have no shortage of otherwise outstanding applicants as things stand now. We don't have a need to retain problems. Sounds harsh to some considering the already expended capital, but it's a fact. As for those who end up on the wrong side of a table, we're equal opportunity but not ultimately all-inclusive. This job demands the best (academics, ability, or conduct) due to its grave nature. It ain't Dunder-Mifflin.

 

[DanMa1156]

Side note: When it comes to leading troops, the troops (from my experience) cringe at USNA officers. A mass gaggle of troops and a handful of JO's are the ones you are/will be leading. I haven't ever witnessed anything one commisioning source provides over another, except scirosis, getting laid and wear of uniforms one day a week vice 7.

I've heard more than a few "listen here CHIEF!" s come out of Freddies Finishing School for Boat Chug graduates, they usually ended up apologizing later.

Continuted sidenote:

Look, I can't even hold a candle to your experience and I'm not going to try to. However at the same time, when I had the dilemma of choosing between NROTC and USNA, I recall asking several enlisted folks who all recalled their Naval Academy Div-O's being well received and they all wholeheartedly recommended that I come here. On Summer Cruise after my plebe year, I recall the sailors I worked with in the air division on the ship I was on, LPD-8, ask specifically why we seemed so much more knowledgeable and professional than the "other" group of Mids... they didn't know which commissioning source was which until we told them, but the distinction was obvious. Again, this past summer, while in King's Bay on PROTRAMID, I was embarrassed with the Senior Chief we were with consistently telling the NROTC guys to "follow these (USNA) Mids' example" since we "knew what we were doing" and they ought ot respect us for the work and dedication we give to the Navy. His flattery of USNA Grad's was beyond anything I'd seen and I felt bad for the NROTC Mids, so I just told him thanks for the compliments and moved on.

I'm not trying to say what you've seen hasn't happened at all; just that in everything I've seen, the reaction from our Navy's sailors has been quite positive about the Naval Academy and the people it produces compared to other commissioning sources. I just feel the need to pipe up and defend my school a little bit here as there seems to be a growing anti-USNA sentiment in this site that I feel is unwarranted. Yes, those guys down in P-Cola messed up and yes, they obviously fell through the cracks here, but by and large, it seems like my school is a very valuable commissioning source for the Navy.

 

[cfam]

^^+1 We're not all idiots.