Sully retires ...

[jt71582]

They (not he) made a decision and stuck to it...I find that respectable. There will always be those going back and forth about what should have been done, but I'm personally glad everyone came out alive. I imagine ditching that thing would have been ugly, what with that big ass M&M on the bottom.

 

[Flash]

No, not bullshit. I'm with PSW on this one. You fly a national asset, you have to be prepared to give your life to defend it - no different than defending nukes. You think a pilot would land on Hainan with nukes on board? Or would he ditch?

Nukes and crypto? Isn't that like apples and oranges? Really no comparison.

As for your "measuring contest" that you're trying to engage in - PSW is WELL aware of what was onboard/what was being done, seeing as she was read into that compartment at the time. Just because you're all source/have been in the squadron doesn't mean you know everything. Guess what - "her colleagues" started the destruction process. Why? Because an Aircraft Commander made a decision to land in Communist China. Did they finish? No. Why? Because they were expecting to ditch, not to land in a hostile, foreign country.

Having actually flown the missions and knowing everything that was on my aircraft I guess I have to take the word of someone who was 10,000 miles away in a cubicle and just shut up. Like I said, I went through the full report several times and know what was on there, 'special' stuff and all. I seriously doubt she has any greater knowledges about the incident and it's aftermath, compartments and all.

They were ditching, bailing out, then landing........it was a bit of a mess but most did their best.

I've tried to defend his decision to her "colleagues", some of whom are former EP-3 NFOs. All of whom have told me I'm full of shit. But Flash says so, so therefore...

Don't just take my word for it, with few exceptions almost every VQ and VP type I have talked to agreed with the crew landing, it was the least bad option. I work with about a dozen current and former VQ and VP guys where I work, only one thinks he should have not landed there. That has been the norm since this has happened, over 90% agree with what was done, retired crusty O-6's who cut their teeth in the bad 'ol Cold War days to new JG MC's. If you don't take my word then take over 30,000 hours of experience in the actual aircraft from a single office over a single naysayer. And I am not the only one who thinks so on this board either, unless Zab has drastically changed his mind he thinks the same way along with a few others in the thread I linked.

 

[Flash]

......You're not gonna' make it to old age w/ the extreme insecurity and paranoia that you possess and display at every opportunity.

Instead I should resort to bombast and narcissism?

But even if you think yourself 'right' ... no one listens to your screed on this board other than the 5-6 lapdogs that march to the beat of your drum. That alone should tell a thinking person something ...

I am sure they are flattered at your compliment.

*edit* ... how did a thread on 'Sully' get twisted into a Flash pontification ... ?? Especially when Flash and some others know jack-shit about the airlines and what goes down there ... ???

Like any other thread jack on this board.

 

[A4sForever]

... narcissism? ....

Narcissism??? I make it a policy to stay away from mirrors. I'm too old to deal w/ it.

 

[phrogpilot73]

...words...

How 'bout this... Just click "print" on whatever you're browsing on JWICS right now. Then FEDEX it to China.

Why should we protect any of our secrets? As long as people live, we're good.

The person 10,000 miles away actually KNOWS what the collection capability/assets on board were, and OH BY THE WAY has read the exact same reports that you've read. AND THEN SOME. And they say that you're wrong and they should have ditched. If you knew as much as you claimed you knew - you'd be working for NSA. Or you'd be a Cryppie, not a reserve whatever you are.

 

[PropAddict]

Don't just take my word for it, with few exceptions almost every VQ and VP type I have talked to agreed with the crew landing, it was the least bad option.

I'm betting none of those people have ever passed an MC board. . .

 

[Flash]

How 'bout this... Just click "print" on whatever you're browsing on JWICS right now. Then FEDEX it to China.

Why should we protect any of our secrets? As long as people live, we're good.

The person 10,000 miles away actually KNOWS what the collection capability/assets on board were, and OH BY THE WAY has read the exact same reports that you've read. AND THEN SOME. And they say that you're wrong and they should have ditched. If you knew as much as you claimed you knew ......... Or you'd be a Cryppie, not a reserve whatever you are.

Yeah, I guess I should just defer to someone who probably has never even stepped foot on an EP-3, much less flown one. Far be it from me to know what was on my own aircraft, what was one it or what it's mission was. As much as it some there might think, NSA doesn't have a monopoly on knowledges nor do it's people.

No matter where I work I know my job well, including what I used to do and as a reserve whatever. The most strident critics I have run into have never flown a mission in their life, I imagine some of those wrote those reports you may refer too. That whole thing about the critic and the one in the ring comes to mind......

 

[Flash]

I'm betting none of those people have ever passed an MC board. . .

You are fucking kidding me, right? Every single on of them did, including me, and a former DH, PCO's, former CO's........

 

[phrogpilot73]

Yeah, I guess I should just defer to someone who probably has never even stepped foot on an EP-3, much less flown one. Far be it from me to know what was on my own aircraft, what was one it or what it's mission was. As much as it some there might think, NSA doesn't have a monopoly on knowledges nor do it's people.

Actually, it was an EP-3 NFO turned IW that told me this. Did you miss that, or do you just practice selective reading?

You may have stepped foot on an EP-3, but you've never flown one either.

No, NSA doesn't have a monopoly on knowledges, however - they tend to know about what they know about. It's their fucking job.

 

[jt71582]

OK so anyway, Sully retires, hmm? Cool.

 

[Flash]

Actually, it was an EP-3 NFO turned IW that told me this. Did you miss that, or do you just practice selective reading?

Nah, I saw that, one bad apple shouldn't ruin the rest. I guess you missed the part about the dozen guys I work with, but I guess we all lack in reading comprehension tonight.

You may have stepped foot on an EP-3, but you've never flown one either.

For a few minutes I did, then there was the whole MC thing for a det or two, but I guess that just doesn't count for much.

No, NSA doesn't have a monopoly on knowledges, however - they tend to know about what they know about. It's their fucking job.

And you know this how, pillow talk? I know my fucking job too, as I did when I was an EWMC. Just because you don't like my views doesn't mean I am bad at my job, or former ones.

 

[Flash]

OK so anyway, Sully retires, hmm? Cool.

Eh, old news!

 

[jt71582]

Can't say I didn't try.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Nah, I saw that, one bad apple shouldn't ruin the rest. I guess you missed the part about the dozen guys I work for, but I guess we all lack in reading comprehension tonight.

I'll lay it out for you, Barney style. I don't give a shit about the dozen guys you work for. Are any of them IW's/CT's? No? Well, just in case you missed it, the EP-3 isn't a warfighting asset. It EXISTS for Cryptology. So when Cryptologists are saying that they should have ditched based on what's on board? Then you're full of shit.

For a few minutes I did, then there was the whole MC thing for a det or two, but I guess that just doesn't count for much.

Wow, a few minutes? Impressive.

And you know this how, pillow talk? I know my fucking job too, as I did when I was an EWMC. Just because you don't like my views doesn't mean I am bad at my job, or former ones.

I guess it's physically impossible for a Phrog guy to have a TS/SCI and read all the same shit you do.

I'm offended that you would suggest that PSW would violate her NDA. She never has, and never will.

 

[Sky-Pig]

For pete's sake, can you two go get a (scif'd) room? Let's talk about something slightly less controversial...like the USS Pueblo incident...or the tax code...or presidential elections...or whether or not I'm going to gets Jets in my next life.

And as a former NFO...while I'm never in favor of a pilot with more take-offs than landings, no one died on Sully's watch...which works for this ol' tube troll.