Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[Python]

Huh, I thought sending LVL I Nuggets to the boat was something that they tried to avoid. Or was your case because your Squadron was "special?"

When I deployed for the first time there was no LVL-X requirement to deploy because the warfare quals were very new to HSC (which had only just become HSC. My orders from HTs said "welcome to HC-6!") so I could deploy 6wks after check in. 18 months later when I cruised as a HAC all of our nuggets had to be LVL-2 to deploy so all the nuggets were at the Squadron for ~6mo going through the SWTP machine.

I assume LVL I means fresh FRS graduate in the helo world...

So if a guy gets sent from the FRS to a squadron with an imminent deployment the guy simply stays behind?

Sorry if that question is retarded, but this is the stupid questions thread...

 

[RadicalDude]

I assume LVL I means fresh FRS graduate in the helo world...

So if a guy gets sent from the FRS to a squadron with an imminent deployment the guy simply stays behind?

Sorry if that question is retarded, but this is the stupid questions thread...

It's the same in VFA. Level 1 is an FRS grad. Two combat wingman. Three Section lead... etc.

 

[Pags]

My view is from that of an HSC expeditionary Squadron. and yes, LVL I is a nugget fresh from the FRS. I have no clue how common sending nuggets to a soon to deploy CVW Squadron is.

@SynixMan : I meant long cruise vice short pump to the boat for a CQ or some such.

 

[SynixMan]

@SynixMan : I meant long cruise vice short pump to the boat for a CQ or some such.

Same idea. We had Cat Is meet us on deployment. I went to air wing Fallon with one week in the squadron. We can and did mint H2Ps, HACs, Level 2/3/4s on the boat. Painful for the tactics stuff, but doable.

Just a different mentality vice the EXP squadrons since we couldn't rely on a home guard.

 

[Pags]

Same idea. We had Cat Is meet us on deployment. I went to air wing Fallon with one week in the squadron. We can and did mint H2Ps, HACs, Level 2/3/4s on the boat. Painful for the tactics stuff, but doable.

Just a different mentality vice the EXP squadrons since we couldn't rely on a home guard.

Right on. We'd make H2Ps on cruise. HAC and Lvl 3s usually waited until home although I know a few folks who made HAC on cruise due to extenuating circumstances. Getting SWTP quals without an organic WTI was what made SWTP quals at sea hard to do.

Bottom line: ignore my comment about nuggets on cruise. I apparently know not of what I speak.

 

[SynixMan]

Right on. We'd make H2Ps on cruise. HAC and Lvl 3s usually waited until home although I know a few folks who made HAC on cruise due to extenuating circumstances. Getting SWTP quals without an organic WTI was what made SWTP quals at sea hard to do.

Bottom line: ignore my comment about nuggets on cruise. I apparently know not of what I speak.

SWTP stuff was the oddball for sure, but the CAG Staffer (almost always a SWTI) would be the evaluator and that processed was blessed by the powers that be. If anything they were interesting checkrides being so far away from home. I think we had one guy do his Level 4 ride on an LFE with the de Gaulle.

 

[DanMa1156]

Rules in 5th Fleet from whoever made them for us (maybe this is Navy wide?): you're a Level III ASUW (I guess Level III Core now) if you're going to fly as a HAC, because, with very little exception, you're flying armed.

In my 4 years in HSC, I did see a tremendous improvement in how much HAC and Level III were married up. I do not think it would be possible to make HAC before Level III nowadays unless you were in some sort of weird circumstance.

For us, we had our CAG Staffer, 2 O-4's and Train-O / Super-JO all on board as SWTIs for checkrides. Got a lot of the overland stuff done in Kuwait - in fact, my night CAS card was alongside a 2 bird section of Army Apaches who needed some proficiency. Needless to say... they were significantly better than I was that night!

 

[zipmartin]

Another old guy example:
Commissioned - May 76
Winged - July 77
FRS - Aug 77
Fleet squadron already deployed - Mar 78
LTJG - Jun 78

 

[Uncle Fester]

VAW designated "Pri A" nuggets to go to squadrons on deployment or about to get underway. Essentially the RPs who'd done well behind the Boat on CQ and it was felt that they wouldn't need time to ramp up. Occasionally they got it wrong - I knew one guy who got to the Boat on cruise and it was evident he'd been thrown into water over his head - but for the most part it worked out. I assume VFA/VAQ do the same thing.

 

[Gatordev]

Rules in 5th Fleet from whoever made them for us (maybe this is Navy wide?): you're a Level III ASUW (I guess Level III Core now) if you're going to fly as a HAC, because, with very little exception, you're flying armed.

In my 4 years in HSC, I did see a tremendous improvement in how much HAC and Level III were married up. I do not think it would be possible to make HAC before Level III nowadays unless you were in some sort of weird circumstance.

Most (if not all) of that stuff is set by your TYPEWING, not a fleet commander. 5th fleet just cares if you're UP or DOWN and if you're Red or Green. The actual Aircrew Syllabus instruction (or whatever it's called) will delineate requirements for 2P/HAC/etc. This, in conjunction with the ACTC instruction will set whether you have enough combat crews to meet the DRRS requirement. This is also why you can gain a RP and still be combat ready (or not) and why not everyone has to go to HARP and the squadron will still meet it's one of many wickets.

 

[wlawr005]

VFA guys sometimes go to the fleet immediately after graduating the FRS. They are tagged Pri A prior to CQ and have to meet a minimum GPA including completion of more day/night traps than non-Pri A guys. Sometimes they don't meet those requirements and don't go Pri-A. If they do complete, they have 14 days to meet their squadron and get boat current. Anyone reporting to a VFA squadron that's scheduled to deploy within 90 days has to qual Pri-A. Anyone going to Japan also has to qual Pri-A.

If a new guy joins a squadron in combat, they will not immediately be allowed to go in country. Initially they will have to complete several flights around the ship including accruing 15 hours of NVG time in order to be eligible to get their initial night strafe qual and earning the trust of their chain of command before going into combat. Generally very little progression will be made towards their Level II syllabus, unless their training officer waives some GP/LBG/PGM flights in lieu of actual combat missions.

It is not required to be Level II complete to go in country for any VFA pilot although some squadrons will strive to have as many complete as possible before departing so junior pilots can have the opportunity to lead other section leads around the boat to gain experience.

 

[GroundPounder]

If a new guy joins a squadron in combat, they will not immediately be allowed to go in country. Initially they will have to complete several flights around the ship including accruing 15 hours of NVG time in order to be eligible to get their initial night strafe qual and earning the trust of their chain of command before going into combat. Generally very little progression will be made towards their Level II syllabus, unless their training officer waives some GP/LBG/PGM flights in lieu of actual combat missions.

It is not required to be Level II complete to go in country for any VFA pilot although some squadrons will strive to have as many complete as possible before departing so junior pilots can have the opportunity to lead other section leads around the boat to gain experience.

So it would be possible that a guy would fly combat missions and then be behind another person that went to a non deployed unit and completed the Level II syllabus? Or is it that by the time both people moved on to their next assignment, that they would have had time to catch up and leave with the same qualifications?

 

[Gonzo08]

So it would be possible that a guy would fly combat missions and then be behind another person that went to a non deployed unit and completed the Level II syllabus? Or is it that by the time both people moved on to their next assignment, that they would have had time to catch up and leave with the same qualifications?

There's a fairly established expectation, at least in the VAQ community. You graduate the FRS as a Level 1. When you get to your first fleet squadron you immediately start your Level 2 Syllabus which is mostly composed of CBTs and soaking up knowledge by participating in planning and events for your squadron's Level 3 Candidates. Once you get your Level 2, you start the Level 3 Syllabus and now you have to demonstrate that you can plan and brief the required material as well as execute the event without fonging everything away. The expectation is that a JO will be Level 3 Complete before leaving their 1st fleet tour. In fact, it's a requirement for certain shore tours like VAQ-129 or GTI.

 

[wlawr005]

So it would be possible that a guy would fly combat missions and then be behind another person that went to a non deployed unit and completed the Level II syllabus? Or is it that by the time both people moved on to their next assignment, that they would have had time to catch up and leave with the same qualifications?

At some point every JO will deploy in their first tour (some twice, very rarely will you not deploy at all). Whether you end up deploying immediately or spend 18 months in your squadron first, the expectation is that every JO will be a Level IV Division Lead before they leave their first 36 month tour.

 

[CommodoreMid]

VP is different in that they do try to quality spread the guys coming out of the RAG, but there's no requirement for squadrons on deployment or about to leave. I checked in to my squadron that had been gone of 2 months beforehand. Some of my upgrader syllabus stuff I was able to do while on deployment, but it depends on where you are, especially on the ASW events.

My timeline:
Commission May 2008
IFS November 2008
API January 2009
Primary April 2009
VP-30 (under old syllabus where NFOs got winged there) November 2009
Wings April 2010
Squadron check in on deployment August 2010