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STA in NROTC

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fc2spyguy

loving my warm and comfy 214 blanket
pilot
Contributor
Hey, I was just curious if any of you are drilling w/ the NROTC people from the STA program? Just curious if it's any diferent as a STA student. I realize that you don't have to go on the cruises and all that but any thing else or is it business as usual?

FC1(SW) Dohnal
STA-21 fy05 hopeful
 

Fmr1833

Shut the F#%k up, dummy!
None
Contributor
I'm not STA but some of my friends are. It seems like it is different at every school. Arizona, for instance where my good friend is, keeps them seperated completely. My scholl on the other hand (USF at Tampa - come here!) fully integrates them. As a former Marine now in the NROTC program, I can tell you that I think it's better that they are integrated because they give some much needed advice and share experiences with regular MIDS who would otherwise hit the fleet without the benefit of knowing the enlisted point of view. FYI, our BN Commander this Fall is a STA-21.
 

nateb

I knew it. I'm surrounded by a**holes!
At Ole’ Miss the STA’s and the MECEP’s are fully integrated into the unit. Very rarely do any of the active duty types get tasked with anything beyond that of the normal midshipman. For the upcoming semester our Battalion CO is a MECEP and our XO is an STA. STA’s and MECEP’s are treated more on the level of a senior, so they avoid a lot of the crap that the junior classmen experience. Here at Ole' Miss STA’s are also exempt from participating with the drill team.
 

WannaBEaP3gal

Registered User
At Jacksonville Univ. we have about 50/50 percent mids and OCs... who are all intergrated w/in the unit. I find having the priors around very beneficial because they have been out there and you can learn a lot from them, so if you get into the STA program, try not to separate yourself from the mids, they can learn a lot from you
 

bch

Helo Bubba
pilot
One thing to be careful of... There are always the few priors who come in with the attitude that as a result of their prior service that they are better than the rest of the mids....

This does 2 things... 1. it makes that person seem unapproachable to the regualr mids who could probably learn something valuable from the prior, and....

2. It tends to skew the younger mid's opinion on the enlisted guys. Most of the guys right out of HS have had no interaction with the enlisted force. So they are sort of impressionable and a bad egg could lead to incorrectly bad views.

While some mids may seem really stupid and a little gung ho, just remeber this is all new for them. Rather than squish their enthusiamism, one might try to lend some lessons learned advice.

anyway I am rambling
 

nfo2b

Well, not anymore... :(
Fmr1833 said:
Arizona, for instance where my good friend is, keeps them seperated completely.
I don't mean to contradict you here, Z, (well, yeah I do :icon_tong ), but we are fully integrated here. Hope it wasn't something I said that misled you. In fact, I just got the unfortunate news from my advisor that next semester, (spring), I'm going to be awarded a nice shiney battalion officer billet. Don't know which one, but I was really hoping to get through here without any billets. Not that I have anything against responsibility, it's just that I value time with my family.
You think I like avoiding my wife and kids to hangout with nineteen year old girls?
Oh, and FC1, there are lots of fellow STA-21 students on this board, so feel free to direct any of your queries at us.
 

NukeWife

Smiling like I mean it
fc2spyguy said:
Hey, I was just curious if any of you are drilling w/ the NROTC people from the STA program? Just curious if it's any diferent as a STA student. I realize that you don't have to go on the cruises and all that but any thing else or is it business as usual?

FC1(SW) Dohnal
STA-21 fy05 hopeful

My hubby is waiting on the STA-21 results for this year, too. We e-mailed or called the schools that he was interested in to ask the level of NROTC involvement that would be required of him, and it has varied with each school. So, doing the same will probably be your best bet.
 

snizo

Supply Officer
According to CNET/NSTC/NETC/etc instruction, OC's and MECEP students must complete the program just as any MIDN does - meaning they are not to be seperated and must show up to everything that regular students do.

If you hear about a school that does it otherwise (AZ, apparently) - they are doing it wrong. There have been significant problems over this in the past hence the flag officers coming down and laying out the law...
 

nfo2b

Well, not anymore... :(
snizo said:
According to CNET/NSTC/NETC/etc instruction, OC's and MECEP students must complete the program just as any MIDN does - meaning they are not to be seperated and must show up to everything that regular students do.

If you hear about a school that does it otherwise (AZ, apparently) - they are doing it wrong. There have been significant problems over this in the past hence the flag officers coming down and laying out the law...
Right, which is what I thought I corrected in my above post. I guess I didn't make it clear that I was the guy at U of AZ that Fmr1833 was referring to, but like I said above, we here at AZ are fully integrated.
BTW, according to wording of the instructions (which are a bit ambiguous in spots), the actual level and specificities of STA-21 OC involvement in the ROTC unit is up to the discretion of the NROTC unit CO, and thus can be quite minimal, but basically you're right, participation, to some degree, is still required. For example, at the Citadel, the OC's are not required to play in all of the reindeer games that the rest of the Corps of Cadets have to play in. Don't know why, but that's just the way it is.
I would, however, be incredibly interested in some of the stories of the "flag officers" coming down to the ROTC units to "lay down the law." Sounds scintillating!:icon_smil
Hasta!
 

snizo

Supply Officer
haha sorry nfo2b - I actually hadn't read through all the responses before I posted that. Wasn't trying to step on your feet there...participation is not completely up to the CO - basically what ROTC units were told to do with active duty OC/MECEP students is to 'treat them exactly as you would a regular midshipman' which obviously leaves some leeway, but the point was to make it clear that they are in the program just as the mids are and therefore must do the same things that the mids do...

I would, however, be incredibly interested in some of the stories of the "flag officers" coming down to the ROTC units to "lay down the law." Sounds scintillating!

Yea - you know it has to be good if people with stars on their collar got involved ... its more the stories of why they got involved in the first place. This all happened while I was still a Mid and was based on a previous response in this thread (cant see them as I write this) about some OC's and MECEPs coming in and thinking they were above the program and didn't need to 'lower themselves' to the ROTC level and do what the mids did. Some got canned, some got disciplinary letters on their record ... yea it was that bad.
 

Crowbar

New Member
None
As everybody else has said, it varies. For some reason, we have over 30 OC's here and even though this isn't the policy, they can pick and choose their level of unit involvement. Some come here as see it as nothing but a 3-4 year break from the fleet where they don't think they have to do dick. And they don't. And their professionalism (or lack thereof) is duly noted by everyone around them. In fact, we had one earlier this year drink himself right into detox and out of STA. Others come here and want to actually make a positive impact on those around them. And they do. Some try to use the old "I'm an engineer, I don't have time for that". But that doesn't fly with me, considering in the two years I've been here, we've had BN CO's, BN XO's, Company Commanders, Master Chiefs, honor society presidents, etc, who were all engineering majors and (because they wanted to be) were highly involved with the unit. Most just kind of fall out into the middle somewhere.

So, take that for what it's worth. Good luck in the program.
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
You'll find a large majority of NROTC units have incorporated the STA-21 Students in to the NROTC Program, but not all universities. As a STA-21 student, you should be involved. This will increase your leadership learning to its fullest extent.

What I mean is that as a STA-21 student, you can learn from those MIDN because they have, for the most part, mastered the academic realm and you can learn how to be a better student (tricks of the trade), even though they are much more junior to you. As a STA-21 student (or MECEP), you can teach the youngsters by leading by example. Either as a follower, or as a coach.

Not only should you strive to get a degree, but you should want to try "officer type" leadership by taking on those Battalion Billets....which is different from Enlisted Leadership (believe it or not).....just ask any MECEP that has completed OCS.

Questions, comments, concerns?
ea6bflyr
 

Crowbar

New Member
None
ea6bflyr said:
you should want to try "officer type" leadership by taking on those Battalion Billets....which is different from Enlisted Leadership (believe it or not).....just ask any MECEP that has completed OCS.

I could not agree more. Both here at school and at OCS, I had some of the high profile officer billets. Managing an entire Bn staff (of students) was quite different than being the iron fist I was in the avionics shop. I think I've finally started to get the hang of it, but at times I still act like an uncensored out of control Staff Sergeant. But hey, I have to get it out of my system-I get commissioned in 9 weeks.
 

nfo2b

Well, not anymore... :(
No offense taken, snizo.
And I completely agree with the others here, about OC participation, with some minor reservations. I'm an OC, and I have seen those OC's who come here thinking that they are above all of the middies, as stated by snizo, and see this as a "vacation from the fleet," as stated by crowbar. I can in no way justify the former, but some latitude must be given in the latter (more on this in a sec). For an OC to think that he/she is better than the middie's is not only ridiculously selfish, but incredibly unprofessional as well. This is like a chief who forgets his roots (and those of you that have worked for one know exactly what I'm talking about)--there is nothing worse. Like ea6bflyr said, not only can we, as OC's learn some valuable academic skills from the mids (especially someone as old as I am), but with proper involvement in the battalion, he/she can be a valuable asset to the battalion, as he/she shares his/her experience and wisdom with the mids. And again, like ea6bflyr so wisely said, officer leadership is nothing like enlisted leadership, so we still have alot to learn in that department. There are a 2 OC's at our unit that are Chiefs, and they both agree with this philosophy. And for the most part, the majority of the "superiority" complexes I've seen in OC's are actually coming from junior enlisted, i.e. e-3's to e-5's, with only a couple of our many e-6's having this attitude. Ironic, eh? I'll leave that can of worms on the floor.
As for the "vacation from sea duty"--well, as I said above, give us a little latitude there. When I started school, I had been in the Navy for just over 10 1/2 years (and no, I'm not pulling the "Oh, I'm so salty!" card here--it just bolsters my argument here). The 3 years prior to this, I was a staff instructor at NPTU Charleston, which, as any nuke can attest, is akin to sea duty without the sea pay. And the 5 years prior to that was sea duty split-toured between two carriers, with 3 deployments in that stretch of 5 years. So yes, in a way I do see this as a "vacation" of sorts from sea duty, and I treat what little bit of spare time I have as such. If any one faults me for this, then you haven't done enough sea time. Of course, I say this in parallel with my above sentiments on OC involvement. I participate in all ROTC functions, give full attention and required time to my billet responsibilities, and participate in some of the extra-curricular activities available within the unit. But in reality, these things come in third on my priority list: 1. Family, 2. Education (i.e. grades), , and 3. NROTC stuff. The reason Family is at the top is because for the last 10 years of my career before STA-21, and for the next 10+ years after STA-21, I will be spending ALOT of time away from home. And I am a man that strongly espouses family values (another can o' worms). So I have made them priority #1 in scheduling my time. Grades are second, because that is what I'm here for--to get a quality education--that's my job, it's what I'm getting my paycheck for. Everything else is just corollary. I've never used the "I'm an engineering student" excuse, but realize that if the requirements and demands of priorities #1 and #2 preclude making extra time (that is, time outside of that required to perform my required duties) for ROTC stuff, then I will always tend to my higher priorities.
Nuff sed.
 
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