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Square Away an Army Aviator

Stearmann4

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
Guys,

I thoroughly enjoy sifting through the banter on here every couple of days, but now I actually have a legitimate question that can only be answered by a real, live Naval Aviator.

Myself and the other pilots in my unit were reviewing shipboard (CV/LHA) procedures for an upcoming exercise and I was posed with some questions I couldn't answer.

Why, when sent to port delta does conventional guidance state that you'll make a clockwise pattern when I'll undoubtedly have to reverse turns to make left traffic for the deck? (port to stbd approach)

Keep in mind, we (Army) know only the textbook way of doing business, and realize there's probably the "real" way of operating around the decks. We do alot of things really well, but the maritime environment is why you guys get the big bucks and the groupies.

Lastly, we only know of the "published" terminology to use when operating around the boat, but do you really say "cherubs"? We wagered that we'll get made fun of if we go by the book.

Go ahead, let the jokes fly, just remember that when/if you go deep feet dry we'll be the ones who come get you, so go easy on me.

Thanks for the help and consider yourselves contributors to the joint effort!

Mike-
 
Ahh the boat.
First question the port Delta, not used that much really. Most holding is done in the Starboard D. The port D is actually flown counter clockwise, not sure where your info is coming from but LHA NATOPS and my boat gouge says left hand turns making it counter clockwise.

Yes we say Cherubs and Angels and father and mother and the whole deal. Im all for joint and honestly if you really want to steal our job you can have the dark scary nights when the boat tries like hell to kill you.
You can also have the @#$%^ whistles, enjoy the boiled chicken again and again. Hope this helped
 
We actually changed away from saying "Cherubs 5" to saying "angels point 5"

Why? Who knows? It's all the same...cherubs re little angels after all.

CV Natops and as said before amphib deck NATOPS will answer all your questions.
 
I know your question is about LHA, but this probably applies. For the CV, there's some lingo about "Down the throat." I can't remember if that's actually in the CV Natops, but it means to fly at the ship from the bow (front) of it, basically like playing chicken. Then you'd slow, turn and land Spot 1 or 2. So it would be "Cleared down the throat, Spot 1." I'm sure HH-60H can give a better idea for the CV stuff, like the Marines can about LHA.

Lastly, and I'm sure this is obvious, but comms. Short and concise. If the Boss tells you to shut up, or says "Aircraft Landing," it's time to zip it. There are times when you'll get handed off by Strike (again, speaking CV here, but I imagine this happens w/ Icepack on a busy LHx deck), and by the book, you're supposed to check in w/ Tower. If they're busy, they might not want to talk to you or hear about you yet, and just want you to hold in Stbd D. They know you're coming, but have better things to worry about than us "lesser aviators" (in their minds).

I've had very limited exposure to this stuff, so I always tried to get the info you're asking for. I learned the book, but there's always some stuff that isn't in there that can make you look like a jackass.
 
Stearmann4 said:
Why, when sent to port delta does conventional guidance state that you'll make a clockwise pattern when I'll undoubtedly have to reverse turns to make left traffic for the deck? (port to stbd approach)

Lastly, we only know of the "published" terminology to use when operating around the boat, but do you really say "cherubs"? We wagered that we'll get made fun of if we go by the book.

Go ahead, let the jokes fly, just remember that when/if you go deep feet dry we'll be the ones who come get you, so go easy on me.
Click to expand...
My thoughts on the matter - First, I had to reference my LHA/LHD NATOPS/boat gouge as well. That should tell you the likelihood of a Port D scenario. Sure enough, the little picture provided says a clockwise pattern. Hmm - the one time in eight months that I was directed to Port D, vice Starboard D, I did it wrong. I wouldn't worry about Port D that much.

Second, if you're going to an LHA/LHD there's really no such thing as a "Port to Starboard" approach. That's generally reserved for the little decks. While there are spots on the starboard side of the ship, depending on the scope of your exercise - they may not be used. That area is called "The bone" and is used for parking aircraft. I didn't see those spots until we flew off the ship to go home. If you do have to use one of them, you will enter the normal Charlie Pattern, cross the stern of the ship, and come up the starboard side to land on one of those spots.

Third, Yup. We in the USMC rotary wing community (i.e. LHA/LHD) use cherubs. A Lot. None of this Angels .5 crap. Hell, all we ever fly around in is Cherubs. Don't think you'll get laughed at if you're using the proper terminology. The Navy (and any Marine bubbas around) will actually be very impressed that you guys took the time to do your homework.

Finally, I wouldn't laugh - I'm a professional! :D However, with you going to the boat, and me doing a dirt det for seven months, are you sure we're not in the same service? ;) I concur with skidkid on this one, you can have the boat. He forgot a few things though, mainly the bilge pump for the well deck that ran DIRECTLY below my stateroom. And of COURSE, they have to do well deck ops between the hours of midnight and 6 am in order to meet us "flyboys" timeline...
 
Guys,

Thanks for the inputs. We used to conduct underways pretty frequently prior to 9-11, but not so much anymore. The only reason we keep our currency is because the boat is the preferred home base for the "customers." (i.e. USS Kittyhawk) We have been put in stbd D several times (LHA), probably because we were trying to recover a large, disimiliar formation.

Agreed, I've never used Angels cuz' we're usually never above ".2" anyway. We stick close to the LHA NATOPs to avoid undue wrath from the Boss, just clearing up some pilot debate in our office.

Skid, Phrog, thanks for the perspective. Take it from another tandem-rotor assault guy, we have no desire to steal your mission. I'll take cutomers to the "X" downtown any day rather than hit an LPD (2-spot) on a crappy night. I've been through a few storms over the beach and it didn't make me pucker as much as refuelling overwater at 500' on a hazy, 0% illum night (By a USMC tanker BTW) and we've got some amazing technology in the cockpit. You can have the boat!

Lastly, we have the utmost respect for the Marines, the skids have pulled through for us several times, and 46s are doing the same deed we do with Vietnam technology.

Phrog, the offer's still open if you want to come check out the dark side!

Thanks again,

Mike-
 
Stearmann4 said:
Guys,

I thoroughly enjoy sifting through the banter on here every couple of days, but now I actually have a legitimate question that can only be answered by a real, live Naval Aviator.

Myself and the other pilots in my unit were reviewing shipboard (CV/LHA) procedures for an upcoming exercise and I was posed with some questions I couldn't answer.

Why, when sent to port delta does conventional guidance state that you'll make a clockwise pattern when I'll undoubtedly have to reverse turns to make left traffic for the deck? (port to stbd approach)
Click to expand...

Port Dlta? Who ever does that?

Isn't that the same thing as "Eyes Left" - It's in the drill manual, but no one ever does it! :)
 
Out at the CV we don't do Port D much, sometimes I would go on the port side for the hell of it. The Boss on my last boat would freak even though CV Natops clearly indicated we could be there, but then he wasn't too big on the helo stuff in CV Natops.
You don't hear cherubs much at the boat, probably because the stiff wingers are up at angels whatever.
For the most part I would say airwings stick pretty damn close to CV Natops, with slight idosyncracies for each boat depending on what the air dept and air wing have worked out over time. And even if we don't do it quite the same, we recognize the correct procedure when an "outsider" comes to the boat. For example almost without exception HS flies starboard D at 150' (and we don't really even fly the pattern), even though CV Natops says 300'/80kias. BUT when we have a guest come into the pattern, we climb up and fly the "D" at 80 kias, because we know that's what the other helo is doing.
 
Going out to the boat I get this call upon checking in with center, " Be advised father has gone down on mother."
Well it seemed funny at the time.
 
My favorite was when the callsign for a unit was "Romeo EIGHT Juliet." But yours is a good one, too.
 
We never put jets in a "Port Delta" when running cyclic ops .... I've been on several decks --- it just didn't happen. Starboard Delta was for Stoofs and Helos ..... the fast-movers had a "modified port delta" (counterclockwise flow) , I guess you could call it a "delta" of sorts --- if you consider the traffic "stacks" starting @ 2000' for F-4s/RA-5s/F-8's, 3000' for A-4s/A-7s, 4000' for A-6s/EA-6s/EA-3s, and 5000' for the KA tanker and anyone who needed gas. We kept the Props in Starboard Delta until it was their turn .... the plane-guard helo usually just flew up the wake and landed when the recovery was complete. Worked every time .... :icon_mi_1
 
And that is why as a Helo Guy dont go to the really big deck ever. I like my LHA/LHD where I am the collest thing there and get all the priority I can handle, not sure I could play a good second fiddle.
 
Port Delta was pretty much standard on my last CV deployment (even though there is no definition in CV NATOPS). Even the Helicopter Ops checklist in tower said "Helicopter .... Port Delta" in it. The Air Boss really didn't care where you were (outside the helo restricted space) as long as you were quite on the radios and ready to recover once the last jet trapped.

Stearmann4 -- I assume you have the Joint Rotorcraft Pilot Handbook - Shipboard Operations and Air Traffic Control. It a condensed version of CV NATOPS/LHA NATOPS and the NWP 3-04. It has all the highlights you should need to operate with various ships in one location.

ghost
 
Where can I get that pub? First I have heard of it, tired of looking in three different pubs.
 
It's called "J-SHIP," and it's good stuff. I was never a pub guy, so as far as I know, the pub fairies made them magically appear in the lockers/bags. It's actually put out by the Army, but is made as a Joint pub.
 
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