Yes, that’s correct. I know an O-6 1835 who got very, very close to 200 hours in her log book when she was an AI. She still has her log book and showed us. I think most of her hours were in VP or VQ land.
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Spy vs Ready Room (1 v Many)
- Thread starter HeyJoe
- Start date
Yep, that's the reg - and 200hrs is a pretty high bar for non-rated personnel. The VP and VQ communities in the Navy are really the only platforms left (Marines have some other options), TACAIR is dead as an option with the departure of the Mighty Prowler. I managed to qual for mine only due to some very unique circumstances.
I'll weigh in and say that the overall problem at the top of thread could be addressed by making the AI a 13xx ground job, like Safety. Send someone to a 3 week school to get them spun up on booger eater stuff. There are goods and others associated with that approach, but having watched this issue up close for over 20 years now, I think it's a net positive.
There used to be an 1835 JO billet in my geographic area to be the AI for a reserve VAQ unit, when we had one around us. I think that billet is gone. Too bad. Would be a great opportunity to get intel reservists to learn about and support naval aviation. I would apply for it.
Based on the career paths of some outstanding senior intel O's that I have had the honor of meeting who started off as an AI, I personally think the AI officer is a valuable role to keep. The squadron AI work could be done by an independent duty IS1 or ISC, sure, or a 13XX, but the opportunity to be a formative experience for an intelligence ENS or LTJG has its own lasting benefits.
Based on the career paths of some outstanding senior intel O's that I have had the honor of meeting who started off as an AI, I personally think the AI officer is a valuable role to keep. The squadron AI work could be done by an independent duty IS1 or ISC, sure, or a 13XX, but the opportunity to be a formative experience for an intelligence ENS or LTJG has its own lasting benefits.
Yes, that is exactly the billet FlyinSpy was in for several years.
Yeah, I know a few who have cycled through that billet, as well. I believe it's been re-coded for 1830 (?) and has moved to a rainy part of America.
Correction, both places are pretty damn rainy.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
Its a waste of time for an ENS or JG. They get stuck doing collateral duties shore side like EKMS, SECMAN, ATO, Foreign Travel, N6, MWR, etc.
Not saying there isn’t value of Ensigns being in the fleet and supporting fleet operations but squadron AIs isn’t the solution.
Having them in the air wing makes more sense and they can learn air wing operations and be mentored by a more senior intel officer. Cause once you embark or go to AWF you become part of the Air Wing anyway and work for the CAG AI.
so why do you see value in having them sit shore side at the squadron doing non intel work?
Roger, thank makes a lot of sense. Yes, as long as intel O's are still embeds in the aviation squadrons in some way, to get that ready room experience, would be super valuable for Navy Intel as a whole, and individual officers.
I don't see a reason why their FITREP couldn't be signed by CAG AI all the time, and they work for the air wing but then get farmed out individually to each squadron to provide intel support.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
That is actually another problem. Glad you brought that up.
Once you embark you work for CAG AI and are tdy to them.
Now you’re still responsible for the squadrons stuff and on top of that now you’re responsible for event planning or whatever else you’re assigned to in CVIC.
Which is somewhat unfair. Cause you’re really busy with your actual responsibility as an AI in the airwing. But the person who signs the fitrep is your CO.
To complicate it even further. When you’re an AI I the wing it doesn’t matter what squadron you came from. Helo AI does strike events, etc
The Unclass part makes me laugh. The crossing out of SECRET type stuff gives me an aneurysm just reading that. Then again most VP NFO JOs deal with KMI on a near daily basis these days.
It was handwritten, usually in childish handwriting to be clear it was a mockery.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
it’s pretty funny. Not gonna lie.
But if you did that in the SCIF at the intel mothership in DC they’d probably fire you.
And since HeyJoe is leading the trend in posting pics from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away - here's FlyinSpy after his 200th hr flight in the Prowler, circa 2007. Bouncing at Oceana is a tough way to log a 1.0 - my back still hurts...
We got non-rated guys NAO wings for training up and executing right seat drone missions, so familiar with that. And those guys, once they knew wings were at stake, tracked the hours to the second and knew exactly when they crossed the threshold.
^ Naval Observer Badge
The intel guys were one step removed, working in a separate space watching the feeds and driving the overall show. They became experts in the system. In hindsight, I wish I had pursued them for the guys. Maybe could have, maybe not.
I'll say this about wings and devices for intelligence officers. They are a nice-to-have, and should not dictate or shape operations simply to get a piece of flair.
However, these wings/devices do reflect a certain degree of understanding, experience, or "been-there-too" factor that has value in the IC. They are at minimum a conversation starter, and a perception of operational experience absolutely lends credibility to intel personnel in the performance of duties, especially when seated at a table among civilians and joint personnel.
For example, at one particular 3-letter agency (which is very Army-heavy in terms of assigned personnel), naval intelligence personnel with "another" device may be able to lend more weight to discussion inputs when talking about operations. Examples could include participating in a wargame/TTX, or trying to understand what a vaguely worded RFI or PIR is really asking for. Prior-URL officers will occasionally leverage past experience as a SWO, submariner, or other community to provide operational insights to the intel process. Some 1830s coming from NSW-supporting commands may have a naval parachutist badge (and one I met had a BSM, too). With the Army element, a certain amount of "Do you have a Ranger tab, CIB/CAB, etc?" hidden stereotyping can occur, even if rarely said out loud.
However, these wings/devices do reflect a certain degree of understanding, experience, or "been-there-too" factor that has value in the IC. They are at minimum a conversation starter, and a perception of operational experience absolutely lends credibility to intel personnel in the performance of duties, especially when seated at a table among civilians and joint personnel.
For example, at one particular 3-letter agency (which is very Army-heavy in terms of assigned personnel), naval intelligence personnel with "another" device may be able to lend more weight to discussion inputs when talking about operations. Examples could include participating in a wargame/TTX, or trying to understand what a vaguely worded RFI or PIR is really asking for. Prior-URL officers will occasionally leverage past experience as a SWO, submariner, or other community to provide operational insights to the intel process. Some 1830s coming from NSW-supporting commands may have a naval parachutist badge (and one I met had a BSM, too). With the Army element, a certain amount of "Do you have a Ranger tab, CIB/CAB, etc?" hidden stereotyping can occur, even if rarely said out loud.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
I think the IW pin is a waste of time, money, and resources.
it’s not a warfare area and it’s not like you have an understanding of employing a tactical asset like a Pilot, NFO, SWO, etc.
No. All that pin means is you can memorize some information and regurgitate it to a table of your peers.
keep in mind that all the Senior intel officers in the community got that pin from doing a NKO.
it’s not a warfare area and it’s not like you have an understanding of employing a tactical asset like a Pilot, NFO, SWO, etc.
No. All that pin means is you can memorize some information and regurgitate it to a table of your peers.
keep in mind that all the Senior intel officers in the community got that pin from doing a NKO.