Some neat pictures of a rooftop extraction

[phrogpilot73]

Thats got to be a PITA to try and maintain your position for the pilot. It doesnt look like he has anything in front of him as a reference point other then the big mountain a couple miles away.

I take it this is one of those times where you hope your crewchief is doing his job?

Getting it on deck that way is the hardest part, but the crew chief does a really good job talking you into position. It's essentially the same skill set required for a HOGE. Once your mainmounts are on the deck, it's easy because you lower the collective slightly, and the plane settles in place. All you have to do is keep the cyclic pretty much in the center. Not hard, and fun to do!

I never hope that my crewchief is doing his job, I always KNOW that he is.

 

[gregsivers]

Have you done your first three HTACs yet, greg? I think we "dropped off some SEALs" on two of them after coming into the 360 overhead. Kind of cool to see the helo flown in a non-FTI way at that point.

Nah, still trying to master the whole hovering thing. Still in pre-solo fams. My IP demo'd a tactical approach at Site 8 the other day, which was fvcking cool.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Nah, still trying to master the whole hovering thing. Still in pre-solo fams. My IP demo'd a tactical approach at Site 8 the other day, which was fvcking cool.

The HTAC FTI 360 overhead "tactical approach" is pure teaching tool. You wouldn't use something like this in the real world.

 

[phrogpilot73]

The HTAC FTI 360 overhead "tactical approach" is pure teaching tool. You wouldn't use something like this in the real world.

Concur, I've only done spiral approaches on a NATOPS check. If you want a tactical approach, maintain 50', 100-120 kts, roll over the trees, and simultaneously do a quick stop to land. Closest you can get to a side flare these days...

 

[skidkid]

Maybe maybe not. The Viet Nam guys did high alt transit to avoid ground fire then spiraled in, as we fight insurgency and our ASE gear gets better high alt helo tactics, by high I mean 5000 agl or so may be a really good option.
We are rediscovering diving fire for rockets from altitude.
Something to throw into the bag of tricks.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I read the Army is having to get away from hovering and noe/air-taxi tactics in favor of SPEED and ALTITUDE

 

[Fly Navy]

Maybe maybe not. The Viet Nam guys did hihg alt transit to avoid groudn fire then spiraled in, as we fight insurgentcy and our ASE gear gets better hihg alt helo, by hihg I mean 5000 agl or so may be a rela option.
We are rediscovering diving fire for rockets from altitude.
Something to throw into the bag of tricks.

Are you drunk?

Cause I'm working on it over here... (duty day tomorrow)

 

[skidkid]

I read the Army is having to get away from hovering and noe/air-taxi tactics in favor of SPEED and ALTITUDE

Speed is life. They have been pretty shot up but they seem to be learning

 

[NOSWO]

Concur, I've only done spiral approaches on a NATOPS check. If you want a tactical approach, maintain 50', 100-120 kts, roll over the trees, and simultaneously do a quick stop to land. Closest you can get to a side flare these days...

What do u mean closest thing you can get to a side flare these days? I do Side flares into Fastrope approaches...then there is still VERTREP that we do buttonhooks and side flares with......even do Buttonhooks on tactics flights....now those are fun......

BTW yeah one wheel landings on buildings in the 60 are a lil tough since u arent used to using the wheel position as a reference point in the bird...and the thought of a 53 trying the rear wheels landing makes me nervous....

 

[ChuckMK23]

What do u mean closest thing you can get to a side flare these days? I do Side flares into Fastrope approaches...then there is still VERTREP that we do buttonhooks and side flares with......even do Buttonhooks on tactics flights....now those are fun......

BTW yeah one wheel landings on buildings in the 60 are a lil tough since u arent used to using the wheel position as a reference point in the bird...and the thought of a 53 trying the rear wheels landing makes me nervous....

Sh!t we did pinnacle landings in the '46 all the time - I did one in Italy once with main wheels on damn rock ledge and nosewheel/cockpit hanging out in thin air . Pain in gth earse holding it against winds and downwash while they offloaded pallets off the ramp

 

[phrogpilot73]

What do u mean closest thing you can get to a side flare these days? I do Side flares into Fastrope approaches...then there is still VERTREP that we do buttonhooks and side flares with......even do Buttonhooks on tactics flights....now those are fun......

BTW yeah one wheel landings on buildings in the 60 are a lil tough since u arent used to using the wheel position as a reference point in the bird...and the thought of a 53 trying the rear wheels landing makes me nervous....

OK, yeah... Don't rub it in my face that I don't fly a new platform... Sideflares are not allowed in the 46 now... They're planning on it being in service until 2016 or thereabouts, so they have to make sure it isn't being rode hard and put away wet, if you will...

As for pinnacle landings - can't beat the Phrog...

 

[Gatordev]

NOSWO, were you a -46 retread? It doesn't sound like you are, but I've been wrong before.

35 knots is 35 knots. And that's why the Sierras are starting to wrinkle. Haven't flown a -46, but from what I know their sideflare isn't the same thing as what a -60 is physically capable of doing.

 

[HH-60H]

NOSWO, were you a -46 retread? It doesn't sound like you are, but I've been wrong before.

35 knots is 35 knots. And that's why the Sierras are starting to wrinkle. Haven't flown a -46, but from what I know their sideflare isn't the same thing as what a -60 is physically capable of doing.

I concur, a slide flare in a 60 and in a 46 are two different things, for obvious reasons. I know they look kind of similar, but you can't do the same thing with a t/r helo that you can in a double rotor helo. Now NOSWO, you can definately get away with a more aggresive side flare in the lower gross weight of a S, but once you get into the weights of a B, F, and H, you have to be careful.

gatordev: What do mean the Sierras are starting to wrinkle?

 

[HH-60H]

The HTAC FTI 360 overhead "tactical approach" is pure teaching tool. You wouldn't use something like this in the real world.

Concur, I've only done spiral approaches on a NATOPS check. If you want a tactical approach, maintain 50', 100-120 kts, roll over the trees, and simultaneously do a quick stop to land. Closest you can get to a side flare these days...

I disagree. Let's say your are searching for a survivor. Your tomcat has localized the survivor to a relatively small area, rescort's got your back, no unfriendlies in the area. Your DALS is counting down, you're getting close. Survivor pops smoke, just about when you are on top, too close for a quick stop at 60 knots, and BAM! "360 right", make the 360 overhead nice and tight, wind up on final to land and recover, or some sort of hoist recovery. A CSAR mission is totally different from some sort of assault mission, where I assume you have a pretty good idea where you are dropping off troops, sort of like a SOF insert.

 

[Gatordev]

gatordev: What do mean the Sierras are starting to wrinkle?

About a year or two ago there were anecdotal as well as HAZREP stories about how some of the brand new Sierras were starting to wrinkle from stress. The problem is exactly what you said in your post. You had -46 guys trying to fly something that's about the weight of a B/F/H (because of the load) and the T/R just can't hack it, along w/ the airframe. It's not the aircraft's fault, it just wasn't designed the same way as the Phrog.