Ok, seems like Zab has beaten me to the punch on some of this, but will see what I can throw into the mix to make it even more confusing!
smoke_screen said:
1) People talk about Per Diem advantages... what does this add up to per year? I have heard $5000 if you are deployed during the year or about $2000 if not (on average)... any take on this from voices of experience?
It depends on what deployment you are on, and what locations you go to. On homecycle, if for example you go to a JTFEX or COMPTUEX at NAS North Island, you can enjoy 2-5 weeks of living in the BOQ, and for the most part bankers hours for your flight schedule. And pocket the roughly $40 per diem per day. On deployment you can get anything from a low $14 a day, to a high of $104, depending on location. My first deployment (5th Fleet) I averaged roughly $500 a month, or $3000 for the whole deplioyment. Whereas friends of mine, due to differences in rotations, got much more. This last deployment (7th Fleet) was much better, and all det sites pulled in roughly $45 a day, and gave you $1500 a month. As you can see, you will never catch a P3 pilot without a calculator in their flight suit pocket!!
Now, don't be one of those weenies that whine about per diem "but CAC X is spending 3 weeks in (insert high per diem good deal)"... those guys are tools. It is good to fight for your crew, and get the good deal, but commands are usually very good about spreading it around. Alot also devolves on crew quals, and when/where they need a particular crew.
Also, you have two types of ppl on deployment. Those that go out and have fun with the crew, and those that stay in their room and save per diem. Don't be the latter, the best times and memories you are going to have are from going out and having fun with your crew.... such as "appropriating" the OPSO's van in Kadena and taking a day long tour of the island.... mmmm Orion beer factory... mmmmmm..... you hear what I'm barking zab?
For now, don't worry about it, you will get quite adept at computing per diem, tax free, FSA and the rest when the time comes.
smoke_screen said:
2) I am recently engaged but won't be married for probably a year and a half... what is the gouge on which bases are the best for whom? Why would I want to choose Whidbey over Jax or Brunswick over Whidbey? Which bases are pieces of crap and which are nicer? How about the cities around them and civilian housing? Basically... any gouge on where I should want to be stationed? Pros/Cons of each base from any experience...
Honestly, I can speak for Maine, all I know is that it is damn COLD there. A number of my friends wanted orders there, and got them. Most of them live on base in housing, and they are all next door neighbors, so, maybe that is a good thing.
Location just depends on where YOU want to go. For me, there were only two places I was interested in Hawaii, and Jax. I didn't want to live up north in the cold, no thank you. Here are some overall thoughts, the ONLY base I have not been at is up in Maine.
WHIDBEY:
- Waayyy out in the middle of NOWHERE.
- ****ty weather....
- Poor housing options if you want to purchase your home (no direct knowledge of this, just talking with friends who looked into buying out there).
MAINE:
- No knowledge, damn cold.
JAX:
- You have VP30 (FRS) as your neighbor.....
- Sprawling housing market around the base, a little for everyone.
- North Florida hot ass weather and humidity (I am a floridian, and it knocked me over coming back on leave from Hawaii, right now it is like 98 degrees and friggin HOT outside, not south texas hot.... but you get what I mean)
- Able to purchase house if you know you are going to Jax when you start the FRS, easier on you.
- Deployments OUT OF JAX.... last couple of guys have deployed out of JAX, and never left home. Or they went to other close airfields (DUVAL street anyone?).... damn them....
HAWAII:
- Rock fever for those that spend too long on the island without going on vacation or getting to the mainland, hard on spouses that have big/close families.
- Every cousin/distant relative and friend that you had forgotten about finds out you live there, and they all decide to come and visit, since they "miss you", yeah right, freeloaders... haha, but you get the idea.
- Utter paradise, and I am not joking. Did two tours there, and am already in withdrawal 3 weeks after leaving....
- Outer island trips, and overnighters, gotta do it.
- DFWs in Hawaii, man, you just can't get any better than that. How about a TAC flight trainer off of Molokai? And looking at waterfalls, whales, and some amazing scenary? How about lets do touch and goes at the Big Island, Maui, or over at Kauai? Rough.... Not to mention home plate of Kbay, absolutely gorgeous. Not on my laptop right now, or I would upload a pic of that!
- Housing off base, expensive, but I haven’t heard or anyone lately taking a loss on sale, some ridiculous profits for those that “fixed up places”, can we say $110k profit?
- Housing onbase, in many cases only a couple hundred yards from a private MCBH north beach. Lots of other squadron members around, or friends in other squadrons. Easy on spouse when you deploy, friends around to help. Sucks being on a Marine base, since we lost Barbers in the 96 BRAC closure. But, we have brand new facilities (or close to it), and a good position on the airfield. Damn, we have priority on the airfield, the helos play second fiddle to us in the pattern. That of course may change if they bring a CVN to Hawaii and the airwing… Silly marine rules above and beyond, ie what you can and cannot wear in the exchange, or 7 day store… But on the flip side, very professional, if anal. Had a sergeant stop me in the exchange and chew (try) me out for not shaving on the weekend (I was in civilian clothing), and “long” hair. I politely listened, and corrected him in his ways… I digress… A lot going on in housing, they are tearing down a good portion of it and building new officer housing. That may throw a glitch in housing availability. ALSO, MCBH Housing office is the WORST housing office I have EVER seen in 14 years in the Navy. They are quite capricious in their handing out housing, and no one that I know of has successfully figured out how they run their wait list.
- Waikiki is a lot of fun.
- Beaches, night life, diving, you name it….
smoke_screen said:
3) Does performance matter in Advanced other than doing enough to get your wings? I really am asking if ranking within advanced classes determines duty station selection order.
Advanced matters for where you want to go and winging. So, if you want that Jax slot, you are going to have to be top of the class. For some reason, that is usually the most sought after slot, I am sure that there are exceptions to that. I for one, did NOT mention to my peers in Advanced how much I loved Hawaii, and why… hehe…
smoke_screen said:
4) As far as the Boeing MMA... let's be realistic- probably won't see any in the air until at least 2015, right?
They are shooting for 2010-2012 to field them in the squadrons, and have the first squadron deployment overseas in 2012 or so. That could of course slide, we shall see. As Zab mentioned, you will be flying the P3, so focus on that for now, and have fun attending all the AOMs and presentations of the plane you might never fly….
smoke_screen said:
5) With so many officers in P3 Squadrons (NFO's and more pilots than other squadrons) is command really that much harder to achieve?
I will look around some presentations I copied when I had the chance, but command I THINK was around the 10-15% mark. Everything depends on what is going on in the economy. For example, A LOT of people stayed in recently. And we as a community brought back O4 screening boards. These boards look at your first tour LT fitreps, and maybe one fitrep into your follow on shore tour before your first look…
When you come back for your DH tour, as an O4, you don’t compete against all the other O4s, only 3-4 of you are in the same window. So, you all fight for the coveted 1 of 3, or whatever. The number 1 O4 is going to get looked at hard for making XO/CO screen, but even that isn’t guaranteed. What jobs did the person do? Community? IP? FRS? Disassociated sea tour?
Problem is, that the command screen board for VP is not made up of just VP guys. You have SWOs, Submariners, Helo and Jets guys on it also. And, in many cases, they don’t understand all that we do in our career path. So they look at your record and evaluate it maybe a little differently.
To be considered, or “in the running” for command, you have to be competitive in your assignments. Here is close to the “ideal”:
1st tour: Qualify in everything, make IP, MC. Get an EP on your fitrep, and ranked out the door with one of the top tier jobs (Pilot Training, Pilot Natops, ASO, QAO…)
2nd tour: FRS IP.
3rd tour: ANAV on the boat, or a leg shaver for a numbered staff “Flag LT”
4th tour: Depending on timing, back to a DH tour, or a short shore tour.
DH TOUR (back to the FRS by YG+11): Stand out, exit as either OPSO or MO, with a 1 of 3 ranking.
** This is just an example path, there are many variables. But for Pilots, somewhere in there, you need to do a FRS IP tour. Yes, there are a few COs that weren’t IPs, but they are few and far between.
Then cross your fingers and hope the board thinks well of your package. Things that the board looks at:
- Quals (MC, underway, IP)
- Fitrep ranking, recommendations for command
- Overseas duty, Joint Staff
- Sustained superior performance, maybe doing the hard job (community fill) and doing it well
- Masters degree, and dang it can’t think of it now, think it is called JME? But the command level study is becoming mandatory, level 1 and 2 I think…
Probably forgetting something, but that is the condensed version. You will get more up to speed as you go through your tour.
smoke_screen said:
6) Do I have this progression correct assuming all goes well and I stay in:
6 months- Advanced
6 months- FRS
3 years- Brunswick/Whidbey/Jax/Hawaii
3 years- "shore" tour, almost limitless options
2 years- disassociated sea tour on a carrier (shooter/Ops/etc.)
3 years- Fleet squadron again as an 0-4 Dept Head (Bruns/Whidbey/Jax/HI)
3 years- another "shore" tour... right? doing what?
3 years- XO/command tour if pieces fall into place
How close is this to the normal progression? I know I shouldn't be looking too far ahead, but I am still curious about what I am getting in to and how people got where they are.
Everything is about right. I have heard that the FRS is now 8 months, they expanded the syllabus. Anyone going through that right now that can shed some light?
Big thing as mentioned before its that you have to be back to the FRS and your O4 tour by Year Group + 11. Ie, for me, I am a 99 year group, so I have to be back by 2010, just in time for the 737s. Yeah RIGHT, like I stand a snow balls chance in hell of fighting that out and getting a slot… hahaha…. Depending on timing, you can have ANOTHER shore tour after your disassociated tour. Mine will work out to almost 24 months open, so I can go fly somewhere to make up for not flying on this tour. We shall see.
Your last 3 timings are off. You only have 2 year tours as DH, XO/CO. Sometimes DHs leave early or stay late, depending on the timing of Fitreps and deployment (COs don’t like to get rid of top performers in Maint and OPS before deployments).
To answer your ultimate question of being CO, you just really don’t know. You could do everything right, and still not screen. As a pilot, once the airlines start hiring again, you will probably see an exodus, and then your competition will dry up, and there won’t be as many around. I think with anything, just knowing what your options are, and what you have to do, will help preserve your options for choices down the road. Ie, not burning any bridges.
smoke_screen said:
7) Do you look forward to flying every day... do you really want to be on the flight schedule every day (becasue it's FUN, not becasue it will build your resume) ?
I can honestly say that after I finished my T34 solo, I never looked at a schedule and wished I wasn’t flying. Granted there are days when you go “damn, this is going to be painful”, ie a NATOPs check ride, PPC FLY 6 with the CO/XO, etc. But it is all part of the process. Just as zab said, this pain is inversely proportional to the amount of time you spend studying. The key to success is using your peers and the personnel qualified to sign your PQS.
Now that just discussed training events. Then you have the deployment blues, the 5 hour preflights, and shifting to ANOTHER plane, and taking off late, and having tasking change…. All that disappears when you have a good crew, and go out and HAVE fun. As you are upgrading, watch the PPCs that you like to fly with, and the ones that make it painful. You decide what you WANT to be. For me, with a brand new 3P on a tactical flight, I was like, hmmm, the tube is still setting up, see those clouds over there? Go have fun and lets cloud surf. Vice, hmmm, what position is the backup valve in right now? And why? Both have their places…
I hated looking at the flight schedule between January and March of this year when I didn’t fly AT ALL thanks to the hours limitations and lack of plane availability. Can you say “30 DAY NO FLY”?
smoke_screen said:
8) Are there any big current community trends happening now? i.e. what is the talk of the operational squadrons? I have heard that they are decreasing the # of pilots in each squadron to 30 from 36 and are also trying to implement a 6-week detachment cycle rather than full deployment cycle. I just wondered if there is any community scuttlebutt that I could be lucky enough to get in on...
PILOTS: 36 to 30, like you hit on. A good thing, since you won’t be fighting for hours with more ppl. Bad thing, there might not be 3Ps assigned to a specific crew, you might be the 3P for “hire” and whored out to all the crews. Sucks, I had to do it on my first deployment, but also a good way to learn from a lot of knowledgable ppl (ALL aircrew positions), and seeing different ways of doing business.
OPTEMPO: 24 month vice 18 month rotation:
12 months home cycle
6 months “SURGE”, ie augment a deployed squadron if called upon
6 months deployed
** repeat **
Basically what the rest of the Navy moved to, and now we are matching it. As zab hit on, if your timing is off entering a squadron, you probably will only get one deployment, and that would SUCK if you did a full deployment as a 3P, and never got to take a crew on deployment as a PPC. When the time comes to select your squadron in the FRS, take head of the timing, student control knows all the deployment times. And map out how your 36 months fall across it. I for one would rather spend my last year as a PPC with a deployment in there somewhere. Food for thought.
MMA: Been decided, we can all stop holding our breaths, it is not going to affect us immediately. Fast forward to 2010-12 and deal with it then.
ISR/ASW: Hmmm, what is our role, and what are we going to do? Still undecided.
FLE (Fleet Life Expectancy): Have to make the planes last to 2018? Or so, for MMA to role in and replace the aging airframes. NAVAIR flight restrictions, worrying about HONA hours.
P3 RESERVES: Are they coughing up their planes and going away?
UPGRADED SIMS: Pilot syllabus in the sim, with an upgraded visual (about time) flight sim… hmmm?
FLIGHT TIME REQUIREMENTS: Will all the above, hopefully you will have enough hours to make 2P, then PPC. Have pilots in my squadron that are qualified, but waiting around to have enough hours to sign for a plane….
smoke_screen said:
I really appreciate any help and time you offer on this. I will be sure to return the favor as soon as I can earn a shred of credibility myself!]
No problem, glad that we are able to answer some questions. Shoot either zab or I a pm if you have any other off the wall questions, or post them here. We will do our best to answer them. At the O4 level there is a lot of politics going on, and sadly, it does reach down to the JOs sometimes. But zab put it really good, and it boils down to “don’t screw your buddies in the wardroom”. Help them out and be a team, and you will have all the assistance you need. Whatever job you have, and the work of qualifying, you can’t go it alone. And if you see one of your peers isolating themselves, drag them back in, or call them on it. A large, and well motivated JO wardroom is a blast, and I was sad to say goodbye to mine.
nittany03 said:
One more for zab, Webmaster, and any other P-3 guys around. I've heard talk that selecting P-3s is not the way to go if you want to stay in for a career. Granted this is just pool gouge we're talking, but any comments as to why it is or isn't the case? Is there some bias that prevents P-3 types from getting "competitive" commands beyond a certain point in their careers? Or is this just typical stash JO BS?
Very few P3 admiral slots, don’t know how many. Our leading P3 admiral (4 star) left the community for further advancement, but is still a strong figure, and we were lucky enough to be briefed by him 2 years ago.
If you are itchin for that CVN command, go jets. Have fun at Nuke school if you do go that route…