So it's time to find a civilian job

[BusyBee604]

Secondly, my advice is to go to Nordstrom and invest in one good gray or blue suit, and get it tailored asap bc it takes awhile.

Don't make the same second-career mistake that BusyBee did!
*First saw this posted over the entry door to NAVCAD Indoc. Batt @ NASP - 1956
BzB

 

[nittany03]

And I'd agree, unless you're getting a job where "combat aviator" is part of the skillset leave it off. "Naval aviator" works just as well; you're writing a resume for a specific job, it's not your bio.

Agreed. Then again, if something gets you 30 seconds of looking at your resume instead of 15 seconds, maybe it might increase your chances. If it gets circular filed, well . . .

 

[exNavyOffRec]

The best thing you do for your resume is find someone in your desired field, preferably at the company you want to work for, look over your resume. They'll have a better idea of how to make your experiences align with what that job is asking for.

This may or may not work, it really depends who you get to give you info, if the person is several levels away from the person that does the initial screening that may not work, it really depends on how aligned everyone is.

As an example my resume was looked at by a person I know who worked at a company I was applying for I adjusted the resume per his instructions and was told by him that the resume fit the job I was applying for, there were multiple requisitions as there were multiple positions of the same job. The result was on one req I was immediately shot down for not being qualified, the other 2 made it to the second stage, then no. This guy was baffled and said that is the issue and breakdown in the hiring process.

 

[Pags]

This may or may not work, it really depends who you get to give you info, if the person is several levels away from the person that does the initial screening that may not work, it really depends on how aligned everyone is.

As an example my resume was looked at by a person I know who worked at a company I was applying for I adjusted the resume per his instructions and was told by him that the resume fit the job I was applying for, there were multiple requisitions as there were multiple positions of the same job. The result was on one req I was immediately shot down for not being qualified, the other 2 made it to the second stage, then no. This guy was baffled and said that is the issue and breakdown in the hiring process.

Agreed. In an ideal situation it will work as I said, but there can be situations where what the hiring manager wants and what HR wants are two seperate things.

 

[jmcquate]

Found myself in a new job search a few years back after a 20 year hiatus (searching when unemployed). The world has changed. In my early 30's It would be a phone interview with the hiring manager followed by a flight halfway across the country for an in-person interview. Now in my late 40's the HR Nazis have taken over. Your resume will be machine read for key words and phrases, then you may have multiple phone interviews with said HR Nazis, who know nothing about the job you are seeking. It's a battle to get in front of the hiring manager. You are going to have to tailor your resume to the job you are seeking.

If are so inclined to go the GS route. The veterans status will put in the front of the line for some jobs ahead of better qualified civilians. Take advantage of this while it lasts.

 

[brownshoe]

Don't make the same second-career mistake that BusyBee did!
View attachment 13853 *First saw this posted over the entry door to NAVCAD Indoc. Batt @ NASP - 1956
BzB

Actually Hugh is just having a bit of fun... but Nordstrom's is a great place to buy a suit. They still do tailoring.

 

[smoke_screen]

Found myself in a new job search a few years back after a 20 year hiatus (searching when unemployed). The world has changed. In my early 30's It would be a phone interview with the hiring manager followed by a flight halfway across the country for an in-person interview. Now in my late 40's the HR Nazis have taken over. Your resume will be machine read for key words and phrases, then you may have multiple phone interviews with said HR Nazis, who know nothing about the job you are seeking. It's a battle to get in front of the hiring manager. You are going to have to tailor your resume to the job you are seeking.

Agreed, but the funny thing is that so much of corporate life is navigating through BS that this is actually among the more practical herd thinners I've seen. Super annoying, but conquering the HR abyss is strikingly similar to figuring out how to get things done on the job - savvy, humility, alacrity. Its like the navy - sure the system sucks, but good people still make CO - similarly, somehow it seems like a ton of great people interview for most positions. That said I can't possibly agree more about how annoying it is.

 

[wink]

Of course this process wouldn't apply to every circumstance, especially applications to mid level positions, but the experience my son just had is apparently the new thing, according to my HR niece. He applied for an engineering job with Baker-Hughes via a college career fair. Talked briefly with a recruiter at the career fair. Got a call from B-H and sat for a phone interview with HR that wasn't more than 30 minutes. Then sent to Houston he participated in a two day evaluation process, and not a single interview or HR person in sight. They were told, the day before they left for Houston, to make up a ONE page PPT slide about themselves. They had 12 hours to turn it in via email. That page simply became one of many in a running program shown at a dinner. We know what it was really about. Amazingly, some failed that phase. At dinner you sat with other people, some fellow job seekers, others were company plants to observe you in a social setting. Next day they completed two timed group projects including a scale model build with a budget to buy supplies from a "store", while managers that were looking to hire roamed the room asking questions and observing the process. In the end they had to prepare a 15 minute presentation overnight about one of the projects done at B-H, a capstone project at school, or real world project from your previous employment. They then presented before VPs and all the various division and section mangers that were hiring. Questions were asked, murder board style. With the exception of the phone interview there were no other formal interviews. Some of the mangers took guys aside briefly and conversationally talked about their school, interests, or past employment. I was very impressed with the process. My boy got hired.

 

[jmcquate]

Sounds like a good way to evaluate first time college grad job candidates.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Found myself in a new job search a few years back after a 20 year hiatus (searching when unemployed). The world has changed. In my early 30's It would be a phone interview with the hiring manager followed by a flight halfway across the country for an in-person interview. Now in my late 40's the HR Nazis have taken over. Your resume will be machine read for key words and phrases, then you may have multiple phone interviews with said HR Nazis, who know nothing about the job you are seeking. It's a battle to get in front of the hiring manager. You are going to have to tailor your resume to the job you are seeking.

If are so inclined to go the GS route. The veterans status will put in the front of the line for some jobs ahead of better qualified civilians. Take advantage of this while it lasts.

The machines reading your resume's for most large companies are now gone, not a single one that I have contacts with does that anymore, too many people figured out how to game the system, so resume's were going to hiring manager that weren't really qualified, then in order to open it up the hiring managers had to then review all the resume's submitted, which means they were paying a senior guy to do the work of the junior guys, not a good use or their time or the companies money.

One thing about GS jobs, just because there is a requisition posted does not mean it is actual open, it is not uncommon for them to have a requisition posted to collect a "pool of applicants" for positions that have frequent openings, so if you don't hear something right away be patient.

I had an interview with a guy who was in HR on a "management training rotation" for a company, the guy was clueless as to what I was talking about (the job was for a campus recruiter), I wanted to reach through the phone had strangle his barely able to speak any English dumb ass, a friend who started working at the same company in a management position was shocked and pissed, the kicker is they have a "if not hired after interview you have a 12 month wait" policy.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Of course this process wouldn't apply to every circumstance, especially applications to mid level positions, but the experience my son just had is apparently the new thing, according to my HR niece. He applied for an engineering job with Baker-Hughes via a college career fair. Talked briefly with a recruiter at the career fair. Got a call from B-H and sat for a phone interview with HR that wasn't more than 30 minutes. Then sent to Houston he participated in a two day evaluation process, and not a single interview or HR person in sight. They were told, the day before they left for Houston, to make up a ONE page PPT slide about themselves. They had 12 hours to turn it in via email. That page simply became one of many in a running program shown at a dinner. We know what it was really about. Amazingly, some failed that phase. At dinner you sat with other people, some fellow job seekers, others were company plants to observe you in a social setting. Next day they completed two timed group projects including a scale model build with a budget to buy supplies from a "store", while managers that were looking to hire roamed the room asking questions and observing the process. In the end they had to prepare a 15 minute presentation overnight about one of the projects done at B-H, a capstone project at school, or real world project from your previous employment. They then presented before VPs and all the various division and section mangers that were hiring. Questions were asked, murder board style. With the exception of the phone interview there were no other formal interviews. Some of the mangers took guys aside briefly and conversationally talked about their school, interests, or past employment. I was very impressed with the process. My boy got hired.

Very similar to the process one of my guys told me about that I ended up putting in as a SNA, he was hired as well but then figured out if he could fly he wanted to do that.

It is interesting how the process is different for engineers and non engineering types.

 

[wink]

...

It is interesting how the process is different for engineers and non engineering types.

I can see how a similar process would work for some non-engineering jobs. It wouldn't be difficult at all to create an appropriate set of evaluations. My father in law was a retired Army O-6 who became a Management professor in his retirement (Phd on the Army's dime). He made a good side business out of setting up "assessment centers" for public safety organizations to help with promotions and upper level hiring. Basically, he set up scenario driven problems and then quantified the results. That data in hand, managers then went into the one on one interviews.

 

[binoly]

Though I will admit . . . when the lady who reviewed mine, no anti-military type she, told me to beware of using the words "combat aviator" because some HR types will instantly circular-file my resume in fear that I have PTSD? For one brief moment, I wondered why I bothered with the past 10 1/2 years of my fucking life. Pass the Scotch.

People are always afraid of the unknown unfortunately. They think most of us are coming in as damaged goods that will one day rig the building with explosives.

 

[Mumbles]

 

[maxsonic]

If are so inclined to go the GS route. The veterans status will put in the front of the line for some jobs ahead of better qualified civilians. Take advantage of this while it lasts.

From a Dept of the Navy Civilian Hiring Manager's perspective - indeed, for some position recruitments, those with Veteran's Preference on a Certificate of Eligibles presented to a Hiring Manager must be selected before those without Vet's Pref. However, normally you must be assessed as Highly Qualified or Well Qualified in order to get on a "Certificate of Eligibles" which a Hiring Manager must select from. This is directly related to how you answer the Assessment (Occupational) Questionnaire that goes along with each position recruitment. Further gouge on the process is attached for those interested. PM me if you have other questions on pros/cons of working for Uncle Sam (DoD / DoN) as a sandcrab.

Also, if you haven't already used it, consider using the Post 9/11 GI Bill to go after a STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) Degree. USA (both Uncle Sam and the Private Sector) will always need more people with this specialized education, and I would argue that one's employment prospects are much improved with an Undergraduate STEM Degree from a reputable College/University. Back to School!

MAX