So it's time to find a civilian job

[exNavyOffRec]

Given what I have seen on a few threads I thought I would start this rather than mix this in to an existing thread.

I know there are many here that have made the transition and some of us here are on the HR side and have info on hiring.

Here are a few basic things.

Have a good LinkedIn profile, with relevant information, don't just put 2000-2010 US Navy, everyone has done unique jobs at each command.

Information on hiring can vary, some information is good no matter what field/company, some is specific to a certain field/company.

The first job you get after your military career will probably not be your last job, do not think a company won't make what is often called a "business decision" if it benefits the company no matter how much they like you. The point of this, update your resume on a regular basis, you never know when you may need to send it out short notice.

Be prepared to send out lots of resume's, some will say only apply to jobs that you can take in the 5-6 months, don't go by that, I had calls from jobs I applied 6 months after I applied, and that is just the start of the hiring process which can take a few months. If you want the job apply!

It is still tough out there, yes many companies are hiring, but I know many that are consolidating to reduce costs and doing layoffs, so keep those resume's going out!

 

[robav8r]

Good post. Might also be good if folks posted about known reserve positions available. I know I have a few in San Diego . . .

 

[Mumbles]

Funny. My buddy that is a Lucas Group recruiter turned full time reserve bum because he couldn't place anyone.......

 

[Hozer]

Disclaimer: Retired 0-4 for 2.5 years, not DOD, in the civilian juris prudence world in a medium sized 150 employee office with about 6 other Veterans. Didn't want to do defense contractor stuff, but it was my back-up plan. Got hired 4 months prior to retirement in the mid 80's and the office is 4 miles from my front door.

Call every civilian friend you know and see what's out there. Church folks, neighborhood friends, folks on your kids ball team, everybody. Talk to them very frankly, don't be afraid to ask serious stuff. Money, job market outlook in a given career, etc. Find a senior person or two who is doing what you want to do and talk to them.

Plan on significant retraining, don't go to school or get a certificate just to get it, have a plan.

Most big companies have military recruiters.

Have 6 months living expenses, without having to dip into your IRA/TSP. (Dave Ramsey type stuff)

Get your VA stuff done before you get out. You're more f-ed up than you think. If you've deployed to OEF or anything else, the VA gives you 5 years of free healthcare (if they don't kill you or lose your stuff).

De-militarize your resume (my 23 year career is half a page of a two page resume, 4 lines on my one-pager). What you did in the last year is what matters.

Civilians change jobs a lot. Many folks seem to be in a job for about 2-3 years before changing. Yes, broad assumption, but my observations from 3 years now.

Ex-military guys are valued, but can also be perceived as a threat. The outside world seems to go in slow motion sometimes. Bureaucracy is everywhere. 2 months can be "quick turnaround".

We have folks volunteer at our office for several months to a year just to get experience and have a chance to get hired.

Many companies promote from within. I know this seems intuitive, but don't automatically be turned off by an initial offer of a lower position and salary. That said, have a figure in your head and ask for it. You have a great deal of skill and experience and be able to say why you rate it.

In the Navy, you get a NAM/COM for busting your ass. You say "great"! and back to work.

When you get recognized for accomplishments at work as a civilian, it can be a big deal. Bonuses, cash awards, comp time, all that stuff. It's great!

Many 20-30 something wanna-be professionals are in debt up to their eyeballs. Many have over $100k in student loan debt.

When 5 p.m. comes around, people clock the fuck out. That said, there are no flight suit Fridays or golf-ex's at noon.

You will naturally excel because you are goal oriented and demonstrate initiative. Many folks need to be told exactly what to do and when. Most military folks can analyze a problem, develop and implement a plan. You'd be blown away by how many people cannot and/or will not do that.

Don't be a doormat, but be nice to everyone. Even the crazy lady who you're sure does nothing all day but decorate her cubicle with furry toys.

The military job fairs are mostly non-starters. There are exceptions, but it's the trades and most of them are there to offer advice.

Grow a beard. A bad ass beard.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Grow a beard. A bad ass beard.

Hozer hands out free advice.

 

[nittany03]

Grow a beard. A bad ass beard.

Sigh. 30 days between drill weekends isn't enough. My post-USNR beard is going to be epic. And hopefully not grey.

 

[smoke_screen]

Plan on significant retraining, don't go to school or get a certificate just to get it, have a plan.

Exactly. My strongest advice: figure out what you want to do and get that industry's acronym credential rather than some BS degree. (As long as you know what you want to do.)

De-militarize your resume (my 23 year career is half a page of a two page resume, 4 lines on my one-pager). What you did in the last year is what matters.

Again, exactly right. Showing you think all that fluff matters demonstrates that you don't get it.

The military job fairs are mostly non-starters. There are exceptions, but it's the trades and most of them are there to offer advice.

Best advice here. Don't go to them. It's like going to the O-club to "meet chicks" ... the guys next to you flew airplanes too, can you believe it! Look at it from the employers point-of-view... what caliber of candidates do they expect to encounter at the meat market?

Talk to them very frankly, don't be afraid to ask serious stuff. Money, job market outlook in a given career, etc.

Agreed completely. You have to ask people how much they make. It feels super douchey but just ask for a range and if they don't want to tell you, they won't, but it's not shameful or something. I'd say to use the term- compensation. You just have to ask or you'll end up wasting so much time.
--
This is just me as a non-flier... But overall my broad advice to to have a back porch, bottle of jack type moment of self reflection FIRST. The same kind as when you resigned from the navy. You need to know where you want to live, and what you want to do. Period. If you want to be opportunistic, fine, but there are 1,000 other people also being opportunistic and you are setting yourself up for time wasting and disappointment, etc. If you can drill down to a micro location in a fairly specific industry, get to know the players and the people, get to know the comp, get your name out there, get to know the lingo, glean if there are other veteran aviators like you around, that's a better use of time than seeing what comes along that pays enough to support your lifestyle.

Secondly, my advice is to go to Nordstrom and invest in one good gray or blue suit, and get it tailored asap bc it takes awhile.

 

[wink]

...You will naturally excel because you are goal oriented and demonstrate initiative. Many folks need to be told exactly what to do and when. Most military folks can analyze a problem, develop and implement a plan. You'd be blown away by how many people cannot and/or will not do that. ...

Boy is this true. Not really applicable in the airline biz. Well, cockpit anyway. But I am very dialed into my wife's firm. I have consulted on a couple matters, done some training for them and listened to my wife bitch about some personnel. This is so true. I would say it is probably the very best selling point of military experience. Highlight that when distilling your military years on your resume. Senior folks in civ organization will appreciate this attribute. Even though they may have needed their hand held 25 years before themselves, they sure as hell don't like having to do it when they have much more important things to do now. What ever you do, don't look at the 20 year old photo on the desk of the person interviewing you and say "oh, your husband was in the Navy too. Couldn't have done much given his lack of ribbons and those wings." NEXT!

 

[Recovering LSO]

What ever you do, don't look at the 20 year old photo on the desk of the person interviewing you and say "oh, your husband was in the Navy too. Couldn't have done much given his lack of ribbons and those wings." NEXT!

Oh sweet baby Jeebus, please tell me this actually happened!?

 

[nittany03]

Screw TAP. Screw Fleet and Family services; they're not far enough removed from the military. If there's one value to come out of a "vet career fair" cattle call, it sure isn't the recruiters. "Uhh . . . have you looked at our website?" Yes, numbnuts. I was hoping you could offer some context to what's on there. I haven't memorized your org chart. Obviously not.

But if the people putting it on offer to chop your resume for free, DO IT. It's a free chance for you to see what a no-kidding no-military-experience civilian looks at and sees when they read your resume. TAKE THEIR ADVICE. You may think you're being as objective and dispassionate as you can, but it never fails to blow my mind how those people think sometimes. Total rewrite in progress here.

Though I will admit . . . when the lady who reviewed mine, no anti-military type she, told me to beware of using the words "combat aviator" because some HR types will instantly circular-file my resume in fear that I have PTSD? For one brief moment, I wondered why I bothered with the past 10 1/2 years of my fucking life. Pass the Scotch.

 

[Pags]

Screw TAP. Screw Fleet and Family services; they're not far enough removed from the military. If there's one value to come out of a "vet career fair" cattle call, it sure isn't the recruiters. "Uhh . . . have you looked at our website?" Yes, numbnuts. I was hoping you could offer some context to what's on there. I haven't memorized your org chart. Obviously not.

But if the people putting it on offer to chop your resume for free, DO IT. It's a free chance for you to see what a no-kidding no-military-experience civilian looks at and sees when they read your resume. TAKE THEIR ADVICE. You may think you're being as objective and dispassionate as you can, but it never fails to blow my mind how those people think sometimes. Total rewrite in progress here.

Though I will admit . . . when the lady who reviewed mine, no anti-military type she, told me to beware of using the words "combat aviator" because some HR types will instantly circular-file my resume in fear that I have PTSD? For one brief moment, I wondered why I bothered with the past 10 1/2 years of my fucking life. Pass the Scotch.

The best thing you do for your resume is find someone in your desired field, preferably at the company you want to work for, look over your resume. They'll have a better idea of how to make your experiences align with what that job is asking for.

And I'd agree, unless you're getting a job where "combat aviator" is part of the skillset leave it off. "Naval aviator" works just as well; you're writing a resume for a specific job, it's not your bio.

 

[m5h9]

I'll offer my own personal experience in the hopes that someone can glean some information to reach their own conclusion:

1. I had to decompress. The wardroom can be more intense than the civilian workplace. I have never had someone load an inappropriate screensaver after forgetting to lock-out in the civ world. For the PC backlash people, I understand, but this can get you fired-fast, it just takes the HR person to hear "that made me feel uncomfortable."
2. I took a leadership type job from one of the military head-hunter companies at 3/5ths of Navy pay (during the recession) including flight pay and accounting for tax advantaged pays. 10-12 hour days and some Saturdays. Replaced military with business vernacular.
3. After a year transitioned to nice hourly rate job at 40 hours a week. Became a technical expert in a field related tangentially to last shore job. This took experience, not a certificate. I personally think education is the base point to start from, and with experience, brings credibility. Became salaried = less pay + more hours.
4. Paid for performance in a small consulting gig. Expected to perform at client meetings. Things that have completely changed: no annual reviews, work at home 20hrs/week, work hours needed to complete projects, no real boss per se, but have colleagues, responsible for my own benefits, but life is good.

 

[ben4prez]

Get your VA stuff done before you get out. You're more f-ed up than you think. If you've deployed to OEF or anything else, the VA gives you 5 years of free healthcare (if they don't kill you or lose your stuff).

Can you expound on this more?

 

[wink]

Oh sweet baby Jeebus, please tell me this actually happened!?

Yes it did, although I misquoted a bit. He was a former Marine, not Navy. My wife is an army brat and, well, she married me. Considered going into the JAG Corps herself. She very much appreciates the military experience. This guy had a great resume. If he wasn't done after just that one comment his slightly dismissive attitude of her (female, not a partner at that time?) did it. The rest of the interview she played with him like a cat with a half dead mouse. That picture is still in her office. We still laugh about it today nearly 20 years later.

 

[Fallonflyr]

Thank god I did not have to get a real job.