SNA applicants can't have officer interviews?

[canav08]

This is what the processor at my recruiters office is insisting. My recruiter himself is "not familiar with the process". I've done the legwork to get 2 pilots to interview me and the processor said "the board won't even look at them". He says they are only for CEC and PAO applicants and the OCS checklist REV 05/27/11 does also say this but I don't believe it means anything considering how many applicants to several different communities here have interviews as part of their packages.

I was adamant but so was he. He thinks I'm crazy and says you all must be talking about character references which are a "very different thing" [said in a slow voice like I'm a baby and have a hard time understanding the difference].

They are also refusing to submit my package based on ASTB scores:
OAR:58 AQR: 6 PFAR:7 FOFAR: 6

The processor tells me he won't submit an app with anything below a 7 which again, I know is crap because others here with similar scores are having no issues. I'm retaking the ASTB anyways because I know I can and should have better but it would be nice if, in their eyes, my entire package was not riding on a last min retake (a few days before the deadline).

What would you guys do about the interview situation and maybe even the arbitrary test score threshold? I've pushed about as hard as I can on the former and was laughed out of the office. The latter I'm more inclined to shut up and just get better scores but still wondering if there is anything I can do.

I will be in contact with another NRD to schedule my ASTB retake because I will be "home" during that time. I'm wondering if I should see if I can get my whole package moved there? They have actual officers doing the officer recruiting there and I'm thinking there might be less BS if they are willing to transfer my package. My current recruiter is at a local station far from the NRD and is a Senior Chief just back from Afghanistan a few months ago. I don't think recruiting has always been his thing and he and the rest of the people in his office admit they know little about whats going on but insist they are right at the same time. My recruiter himself is completely swamped and from being in his office, he is all over the place with his work. He lost my medical paperwork, then got angry at me for not having it in, etc, etc. He is a great guy ultimately but I just think this is not his thing. I know another recruiter will not be any less busy but if they know what they are doing and are very experienced with the process, I'm thinking he/she might be able to work the package. Thoughts? At least worth a try?

Anyways, sorry for the long post. Im sure you guys are sick of hearing from me by now.

 

[JMonte85]

I submitted my application with 2 Naval Aviator interviews, and an ASTB of 58 7 7 6... I mean your scores are not hideous but they also are not stellar either. Neither were mine, but I was afriad I'd do worse if I retook the test. So I guess it depends on how comfortable you feel with the retake (or it may not matter if they're forcing you). Either way I would ask your Home NRD for some advice. They may have changed some things for the next board, but I really can't imagine officer interviews hurting your chances or not even getting looked at..

I saw someone with lower scores than you on the last board get picked up.

 

[Sparticusjmr]

I have also not heard of the outlawing of officer interviews in Pilot or any of the other boards. My recruiter is actually the one that helped me set up one of my interviews. As Eagle said your scores are on par with many of the others I have seen who have applied, and some of whom that got selected. Sounds like they are setting up some extra hurdles for you. I would definitely get a second opinion.

 

[NTXRockr]

It sounds like you're in for a ride like I was...if this is a "hurdle" for you, then my NRD was building walls and barricades for me. Do the interviews anyway, and give it to them to submit. If they won't take it, kindly ask why again and listen to their response. If they still refuse, ask to speak with their boss. Explain the situation and state that you believe the interviews would help make your application that much stronger than it already is. Repeat with his/her boss, if necessary, and be totally respectful and courteous as they control your life for this very small part of it. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, but don't bitch and complain over what's necessary or they may drown you in the oil and torch you LOL.

And as far as the ASTB, if you're close to the timeframe to be able to retake it, study up over the holidays and do it. I know friends with 7's that couldn't get it because of the competitiveness of the NRD applicants, so it's sporadic around the country. One of my friends can't get in because he missed the minimum GPA by less than 0.1, even though he got 66-9-9-8 (still a chance he can make it though). If you need help with the test or have questions, feel free to message me. I got a 66-9-9-9 on my first try, so I still have all my study guides (new and unused) and can help you with the problem areas. Good luck!

 

[wink]

The processor tells me he won't submit an app with anything below a 7 which again, I know is crap because others here with similar scores are having no issues. I'm retaking the ASTB anyways because I know I can and should have better but it would be nice if, in their eyes, my entire package was not riding on a last min retake (a few days before the deadline).

He can't do this! If a recruiter (not a processor) decides he doesn't want to submit an app that makes basic criteria (your does), it has to go through a "Filed Rejection" process. That requires the recruiter sending it up the chain to his CO with the reasons why and full documentation. Then the Commanding Officer will sign off on the field rejection and you will be formally informed. Field rejections almost never happen because of the hassle. Most recruiters just submit the app with a "not recommended" notation. The board then formally rejects. Botom line. If you meet the basic requirements, whether competitive or not, they must submit it. A good recruiter will counsel their applicants and encourage the best course of action for both the navy and the applicant. What you say is happening here is B.S. The recruiter needs to take back his authority from the processor and the Officer Programs Officer, the department head, needs to have the Processor complete some "remedial" training.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Unless the officers that interviewed you are people that have known you for a while or you have worked for they are pretty much just pieces of paper.

I concur with above, not submitting your application with those scores is crap, they are not perfect but we just had a person picked up for SNA with a PFAR of 7. Is your GPA good, that could be the reason if you don't meet the PA for minimum GPA. You are close to the deadline basically the end of this next week.

If you had a good GPA with those scores your application would be going to board if you were my applicant.

 

[JMonte85]

Unless the officers that interviewed you are people that have known you for a while or you have worked for they are pretty much just pieces of paper.

I say this without disrespect, but I scratch my head on this one. Wouldn't that only account for LOR's? Why would it be better to have them know you.. It's obviously going to be a biased result.

It was pretty much those pieces of paper that got me selected the second time (they did not personally know me either). I got my final select last week.. But that's a different story

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I posted more about officer interviews in another area, but the info I put is directly from the board down to us, they really don't want to see officer interviews and don't give them much weight if any unless they fall into the catagory I said above.

It accounts for both, that is why they want 3 employer LOR for the last 3 years, if a person doesn't have 3 employers in the last 3 years then they look for character references such as professors, or people that have seen you involved in leadership positions that can talk about direct knowledge they have of you. They also weight them so if you only worked at a place for a month, not much weight in that.

A major part of a SNA kit is the PFAR and the GPA, the past board selected many people with GPA's and ASTB's lower than previous boards, feedback provided to us from the most recent board was that quite a few submitted just met minimum scores for the ASTB so those like you with a good score of 7 had quite a bit better chance than before, and you were persistant, I have only had one person that was a reconsideration that was not picked up the second time around.

A good example on the weight of the PFAR is I had a person with about a 3.3 GPA, PFAR of 8, most of the employee LOR had marks of average, result of board was selected first try.

Your recruiters comments also can go a long way, more so if he/she has worked with you for a while.

 

[wink]

I posted more about officer interviews in another area, but the info I put is directly from the board down to us, they really don't want to see officer interviews and don't give them much weight if any unless they fall into the catagory I said above. ...

Your recruiters comments also can go a long way, more so if he/she has worked with you for a while.

You are currently in the business, so I accept that present guidance is as you say. But for 20 years or more, into 1990's, officer interviews were more than just pieces of paper. They were required, two of them as I recall. I did hundreds myself. I know that we have a lot of senior enlisted in officer recruiting now so maybe the change was just to relieve the few officers in the OPO department of conducting interviews. Surely, the board does not think officer interviews are useless. Who the hell knows if a kid has even the basic temperament, character and attitude to be a military officer, but someone who has been there and done that? Are there limits to what can be defined in a 20-30 minute interview of a stranger, sure. But that doesn't keep civilian employers from interviewing potential new hires does it? When we conduct an officer interview we have far more information on the applicant then a civilian employer. If a guy has something sketchy in his app, being asked pointedly about it in person and getting a read on his reaction and response is vitally important. Employment references and LORs can't do all the same. First, those folks don't know all the stuff the recruiter knows about an applicant, second, what do they know about whether the kid will make a good officer? I am glad that apparently the recruiter's comments seem to mean something. But the recruiter has an interest in the guy getting selected. Interviews from other officers help balance any rose colored shading the recruiter may apply in his comments. If CNRC does not want to require interviews for a reason, fine. That they would ignore interviews independently offered is BS.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

You are currently in the business, so I accept that present guidance is as you say. But for 20 years or more, into 1990's, officer interviews were more than just pieces of paper. They were required, two of them as I recall. I did hundreds myself. I know that we have a lot of senior enlisted in officer recruiting now so maybe the change was just to relieve the few officers in the OPO department of conducting interviews. Surely, the board does not think officer interviews are useless. Who the hell knows if a kid has even the basic temperament, character and attitude to be a military officer, but someone who has been there and done that? Are there limits to what can be defined in a 20-30 minute interview of a stranger, sure. But that doesn't keep civilian employers from interviewing potential new hires does it? When we conduct an officer interview we have far more information on the applicant then a civilian employer. If a guy has something sketchy in his app, being asked pointedly about it in person and getting a read on his reaction and response is vitally important. Employment references and LORs can't do all the same. First, those folks don't know all the stuff the recruiter knows about an applicant, second, what do they know about whether the kid will make a good officer? I am glad that apparently the recruiter's comments seem to mean something. But the recruiter has an interest in the guy getting selected. Interviews from other officers help balance any rose colored shading the recruiter may apply in his comments. If CNRC does not want to require interviews for a reason, fine. That they would ignore interviews independently offered is BS.

Things are different now, they are even different than 2 years ago, we also found an old officer cruitman and many many years ago it specified anyone assigned to recruiting could not do officer interviews, basically it was a conflict of interest, and that was in there the last time I looked, but we have done so many revisions who knows if they yanked it or not.

It wasn't CNRC but the people that sit the boards that fed that info back. I believe the problem was that interviewers were asking questions beyond the scope of what was to be known, they were judging applicants on their knowledge of naval history/aviation/COC, something an OCS applicant is not required to know, so basically the interviews were worthless. The same time they sent back info that they wanted to see employer LOR's, in the past we just blew them off, no more.

I have had applicants that did get officer interviews, but they were retired officers and these individuals had worked for them as an employee or they had been a student as the retired officer now taught at a local college, in this circumstance nearly every person was picked up, on the few that just had the "30 minute interview" the selection rate is poor, some thought the officer interview could make up for low GPA or past indiscretion, but nope, now the board looks for any reason to push a person to the side. I had a young person who had a degree in aero eng. 4.0 GPA 7's on ASTB, but when he was 18 had a possession charge (misdeameanor), not selected.

Being a former recruiter you should get a kick out of this, the "master plan" is in the next several years there will no longer be OR's, the E-5 or E-6 at the local recruiting station will recruit both officers and enlisted.

 

[wink]

Being a former recruiter you should get a kick out of this, the "master plan" is in the next several years there will no longer be OR's, the E-5 or E-6 at the local recruiting station will recruit both officers and enlisted.

Yikes! I stay in touch with the guys at the NRD. I am aware of the new department/division realignment. Before I even got out of the business they wanted to move to a point where there were no Reserve recruiters and the same guys recruited to both. Last I saw they weren't there yet. I certainly don't have a problem with a very competent E-5 or E-6 in the officer recruiting business, but having the same dude do both may lead to conflicts. There is just to much pressure on the EPO side to make goal. It took a lot of effort to get our NRD to the point that the NRS recruiters would pass on referrals of Officer Program qualified guys as a routine matter. I just don't think the same guy can do both. I predict problems.

 

[canav08]

Great replies, I learned alot from them.

My GPA's for both my BS and MS degrees in Meteorology are 3.5, nothing crazy high but in the right ballpark at least.

My package ultimately was submitted without me pushing, I believe the interviews were included because they were sent directly to the recruiting station by the interviewers and nobody called flipping out. My recruiter called the day before the deadline and said "we are going to go ahead and submit your app for pilot". Had to sign and scan some paperwork at the last second from 2500 miles away but ultimately everything worked out. My recruiter himself is a really good guy and I have tons of respect for him, it is just plainly obvious that he is swamped and not as familiar with all the specific details of the job as this seems to be his first recruiting assignment.

Especially in light of wink's comment, I've been disappointed in how much all this has been driven by the processor at the NRS I'm working with. He would not prepare the paperwork for me to sign while I was local because he was pretty sure he was just not going to submit the package, this lead to some unnecessary scrambling at the end.

Either way, I'm not going to complain too much about the process. Like anything worthwhile in life, Ive learned to expect obstacles and just try to work with them. I'm just happy for the chance to even be looked at and at the end of the day, I just want to know that I have given it my best effort.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Yikes! I stay in touch with the guys at the NRD. I am aware of the new department/division realignment. Before I even got out of the business they wanted to move to a point where there were no Reserve recruiters and the same guys recruited to both. Last I saw they weren't there yet. I certainly don't have a problem with a very competent E-5 or E-6 in the officer recruiting business, but having the same dude do both may lead to conflicts. There is just to much pressure on the EPO side to make goal. It took a lot of effort to get our NRD to the point that the NRS recruiters would pass on referrals of Officer Program qualified guys as a routine matter. I just don't think the same guy can do both. I predict problems.

I agree completely, every point you have made is what I brought up, but when recruiting is good, people forget what happens when recruiting isn't good, why would a guy push a guy the O route that takes months or even years when he can send them the E route in weeks time.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Great replies, I learned alot from them.

My GPA's for both my BS and MS degrees in Meteorology are 3.5, nothing crazy high but in the right ballpark at least.

My package ultimately was submitted without me pushing, I believe the interviews were included because they were sent directly to the recruiting station by the interviewers and nobody called flipping out. My recruiter called the day before the deadline and said "we are going to go ahead and submit your app for pilot". Had to sign and scan some paperwork at the last second from 2500 miles away but ultimately everything worked out.

Especially in light of wink's comment, I've been disappointed in how much all this has been driven by the processor at the NRS I'm working with. He would not prepare the paperwork for me to sign while I was local because he was pretty sure he was just not going to submit the package, this lead to some unnecessary scrambling at the end.

Either way, I'm not going to complain too much about the process. Like anything worthwhile in life, Ive learned to expect obstacles and just try to work with them. I'm just happy for the chance to even be looked at and at the end of the day, I just want to know that I have given it my best effort.

In looking at your GPA and scores your app should have been sent up much earlier, I have mine uploaded within days of being complete.

There are some processors out there that are not good and should leave the GS system.

There are also some processors that will not submit anything that does not have a spot on the checklist, so if the processor was giving you that much grief before I would question whether or not those interviews were submitted.

 

[wink]

Either way, I'm not going to complain too much about the process. Like anything worthwhile in life, Ive learned to expect obstacles and just try to work with them. I'm just happy for the chance to even be looked at and at the end of the day, I just want to know that I have given it my best effort.

Good luck.