Skyhawk History... The Lost Nuke!

[Renegade One]

... Both weapons were much like ejecting TomCat Drivers, "parachute retarded"!

Ouch...

Untold/unmentioned, but we "no slack in Light Attackers" always sensed that our SIOP inland target missions were like the parallel streets in my home town... ONE WAY!

Ouch again...

 

[Catmando]

Being a fighter rather than attack aircraft, F-4s did not have to do SIOP planning or shape training. Nor did we do loft bombing…. Except in one case I know of:

Late off the tanker, and way late joining the Alpha Strike group that was already bombing on the east side of Hanoi, (Gia Lam?) this section (no it wasn’t me) decided to just loft their bombs toward Hanoi from many miles south, rather than go into that hornet's nest late as only a two-plane.​

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But what they hit caused an international incident! They had bombed the French Diplomatic Mission in downtown Hanoi, killing a number of French diplomats and staff.​

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The perpetrators along with others on the strike spent many days doing rug dances in the Admiral’s quarters, but they were never positively identified.​

Short Time Magazine blurb below. It is also made about 5 minutes on ABC nightly news, which vid I can’t post because of copyright.

"SHORTLY before noon last Wednesday, 20 U.S. Phantoms streaked east across Hanoi toward the battered Long-bien bridge and the antiaircraft positions along the Red River. Despite the unexpected presence of the jets overhead, only a few residents hurried toward the black, tubular individual bomb shelters that line the city's downtown streets. After all, never in the history of the Indochina war had densely populated downtown Hanoi been bombed. Last week Hanoi's luck ran out. By the time the air-raid sirens began to wail their warnings, the French diplomatic mission had been bombed..."​

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[BusyBee604]

Of course it could be worse... Imagine being the duty officer when your squadron lost something like this???

Or on the TICO... being the CARDIV, CV CO, CAG, Air Boss, Handler, Pilot, Flt Dk/Hgr Dk Os & POs, etc. etc., depending on blame placement of the monumental voluminous investigation(s) findings?
BzB

 

[Renegade One]

[F-4s allegedly]...had bombed the French Diplomatic Mission in downtown Hanoi, killing a number of French diplomats and staff.

​

The perpetrators along with others on the strike spent many days doing rug dances in the Admiral’s quarters, but they were never positively identified.

Couldn't have executed that any better if they'd tried…much like the inadvertent bombing (5 x JDAMs) of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade (7 May 1999).

 

[helolumpy]

By the time the air-raid sirens began to wail their warnings, the French diplomatic mission had been bombed..."

So who was the target, the North Vietnamese or the French? Both COAs seem probable...

 

[Catmando]

So who was the target, the North Vietnamese or the French? Both COAs seem probable...

The Time article says the target was the Long-bien bridge. And the ABC News video below suggests another different target - a rail yard nearby. But as I recall, the target was the airport across the river a mile or two in the below image. (Gia Lam, I think.)

Our guys were late off the overhead tanker, but still would have been OK. But in going buster and gate trying to catch up, they spotted the smoke trails of the MigCap and mistook them for the Alpha gaggle. The MigCap were headed for their MigCap station, far southwest of Hanoi. When our guys realized their mistake, they turned north toward Hanoi. But seeing all the enemy fireworks in the air there, bombs going off, and the Strike Package egressing East, they just pulled up 4Gs, and lofted their load.

At the time, Downtown Hanoi was off limits for bombing, as were so many of our targets. Indeed Jane Fonda might be there. [Snark] In fact, every day she was there, a big red no-bomb square was over her position on the AI chart as she moved around the country. Nevertheless she is lucky somebody didn't loft one on her like these guys accidentally did the French.



And the rest of the story.....including a lot of mis-stated facts:

 

[BusyBee604]

...Indeed Jane Fonda might be there. [Snark] In fact, every day she was there, a big red no-bomb square was over her position on the AI chart as she moved around the country. Nevertheless she is lucky somebody didn't loft one on her like these guys accidentally did the French...

Hah, that'd be worth a prestigious award, if they could only ID the PERP!
BzB

 

[insanebikerboy]

Hah, that'd be worth a prestigious award, if they could only ID the PERP!
BzB

Those guys would still be drinking for free if that would've happened.

 

[JT Eagle]

This subject is a bit of a specialty of mine.
The Ticonderoga bomb was complete, one of only two complete air-dropped weapons ever lost by the US (and the only Navy one). They didn't use dummy bombs for loading exercises as there wasn't the space on the CVAs to carry them as well as the war shots. The loading exercise (called a "crewcut" drill) involved half a dozen aircraft or more, but none were intended to launch.
The JAG investigation basically blamed the pilot, Lt(jg) Webster of VA-56. Nobody got punished as far as I know and everybody had normal careers afterwards. As BusyBee says, the whole thing was hushed up totally until 1981 and details of location (close to Japanese islands, not "500 miles from land") didn't emerge until 1989. Lots more information has dripped out in recent years, including from eyewitnesses, but its surprising how few people actually know about it.
I'd love to know what paperwork was generated too. How was the Pentagon informed? Was LBJ? Were the Japanese? (Probably not). Any other documents, thoughts, conspiracy theories or memories welcomed.

JT

 

[BusyBee604]

I'd love to know what paperwork was generated too. How was the Pentagon informed? Was LBJ? Were the Japanese? (Probably not). Any other documents, thoughts, conspiracy theories or memories welcomed.

I remember it clearly, as 5 Dec. 1965 was the day we (VA-146) departed NAS Alameda on RANGER for our first combat cruise. We were briefed on the incident during our ORI in Hawaii, by FICPAC about a week later. The incident require a highly classified "Broken Arrow" Nucwep Incident Report message, and I'm sure LBJ would have been notified. The incident made our constant nucwep loading drills during the ORI, very tense and nervous evolutions. I have no idea if Japan was officially notified.

LTjg Webster had been a FRP in the VA-125 FRS a year prior, where I was an IP at the time. I flew a number of syllabus flights with him. He was a fine lad. and an excellent stick. The JAG may have assigned 'pilot error' but I am sure he had help from yellow/brown shirts + greasy, slippery elevator deck & a rolling ship??? As an aside, we continued to have loading drills throughout that cruise and the 1967 cruise on CONSTELLATION. They made life rather intolerable on the Airwing, as we were at flight quarters 14 hrs. a day flying strikes... and "off time" often entailed UNREPs & loading drills... Ugh!

*VA-56 A-4E circa 1965
BzB

 

[JT Eagle]

The JAG investigation is available here http://www.jag.navy.mil/library/jagman_investigations.htm (scroll down to 1965). It basically says the pilot was momentarily inattentive and didn't hit the brakes when the director's whistle blew. A large number of blue shirts and others essentially pushed him overboard. It has been said by others (not quoted in the report) that the A-4 had very weak brakes when moved to the spot the pilot boarded and that there were saboteurs aboard Tico, maybe cutting brake lines. An incident of aircraft sabotage is recorded a few weeks before this accident. One sailor even says he saw a damaged B43 on a mess deck a few days before the accident and that it may have been staged to get rid of it before it ruined someone's career. I have no evidence anything like that went on, but stranger things have happened at sea as they say.

Note that the JAG report doesn't mention the bomb even once.

I'm very interested to hear that following carriers were briefed on the accident. Who received the brief on the Ranger, BzB? Just aviators or all those involved in loading drills or all aircraft handlers? The Tico crew were asked to keep quiet for "national security reasons" and as far as I can tell, apart from years later telling their families and buddies (who generally didn't believe them), they did, and the secret remained just that for 24 years.

BzB do you have any more memories of Doug? He left behind a bride of six months and a mother who learned the circumstances only when everyone else did. He is well remembered by his wider family and his community of Warren, OH.

JT

 

[JT Eagle]

Here is an illustration of the accident commissioned for the latest issue of The Aviation Historian magazine, available now at http://theaviationhistorian.com/

JT

 

[BusyBee604]

BzB do you have any more memories of Doug? He left behind a bride of six months and a mother who learned the circumstances only when everyone else did. He is well remembered by his wider family and his community of Warren, OH.

View attachment 11963 JT

JT Eagle, I can't recall if I answered your questions when we were posting several months ago, so here's what I remember.

1. At the FICPAC briefing we received on the incident in Hawaii in Dec. 1965, on RANGER: All SpecWeps Loading Officers & Designated Delivery Pilots in CVW-14 were in attendance (that includes 1 A-3, 1 A-1, and 2 A-4 Squadrons). After some 47 years, I cannot recall if all the loading crews attended, but it's doubtful as it was operational info, mainly for delivery pilots.

2. I didn't know Doug Webster very well, although I do remember him & believe I flew several instructional flights with as an IP in VA-125, A-4 Training Squadron (RAG), at NAS Lemoore, CA. That's it.

Here is an illustration of the accident commissioned for the latest issue of The Aviation Historian magazine, available now at http://theaviationhistorian.com/

JT
View attachment 12218View attachment 12218

Nice graphic, quite interesting. Tells the story better than X-thousand words. RIP LT Webster.
BzB

 

[The Chief]

..... The Tico crew were asked to keep quiet for "national security reasons" ....

I was aboard the USS Ticonderoga, CVA 14 for a two week period in early November 1965, I am not certain of the exact dates. During the early hours of one morning, about 3AM local, a large pool of hydraulic fluid was spotted underneath the Alert Five bird. It was quickly learned that hydraulic lines had been cut. I do not recall if it was a brake hydraulic line. Repeatedly, the crew that knew were told not to ever discuss the incident, with anyone. Ever. NIS Subic aboard almost immediately.

Since the Blind Mans Bluff incident I am very reluctant to discuss anything that once upon a time was highly classified, even if told it is now declassified. But I just did.

 

[JT Eagle]

That's very interesting, Chief. I take it the alert bird was an F-8? I have this extract from the log dated 28 October 65 when the ship was enroute Hawaii to Subic (docked on 1 November for 4 days). One crewman says that saboteurs were arrested and sent to Leavenworth, but there's no evidence in the logs. Do you think the incident in the log is the same as you knew of, or did that happen while you were aboard (after 1 November)?

JT