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Skyhawk History... The Lost Nuke!

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Was downplayed for many years, but now 'unclas', on 5 December, 1965, the USS TICONDEROGA (CVA-14), lost a nuclear weapon over the side. At the time ~80nm from the Ryukyu Islands, while holding a nuclear loading drill, a Pilot manned VA-56 A-4E with a 'special' weapon aboard, was being transferred from the hangar bay to the flight deck, rolled off the A/C elevator into the sea. Both aircraft , weapon & Pilot were lost in 16,200 feet of water, and have never been recovered. This incident (Broken Arrow), did not become public knowledge until 1981. Needless to say, Japan was not pleased!:eek:
VA-56_in_flight_1966.jpg
BzB
 

Schnugg

It's gettin' a bit dramatic 'round here...
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Loss of the pilot is the real tragedy.
 

OscarMyers

Well-Known Member
None
BusyBee, I remember a while back you posted about the Over the shoulder deployment, I got to meet General Joe Engle a few weeks ago and he confirmed the USAF did the same thing in the SAC in Europe. It got me wondering if this was ever used for conventional weapons and if so what kind of accuracy/target destruction confirmation did it afford? It seems like a pretty intense maneuver no matter what your carrying.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
BusyBee, I remember a while back you posted about the Over the shoulder deployment, I got to meet General Joe Engle a few weeks ago and he confirmed the USAF did the same thing in the SAC in Europe. It got me wondering if this was ever used for conventional weapons and if so what kind of accuracy/target destruction confirmation did it afford? It seems like a pretty intense maneuver no matter what your carrying.
There were actually 4 different nuclear deliveries:
1. High angle loft (O/S "Idiot Loop") - run in 100'-500kts, pullup to 4g in 2 sec., 1/2 cuban 8, release ~122 deg. nose up, over the top then when 45 deg. nose down roll 180 deg. upright & escape in the opposite direction at low alt. max speed. Wep. TOF 43 sec., gives max escape time, least accurate but w/ CEP of 700' (for an "E") more than accurate enough for the bigger booms.
A-4 Idiot Loop.jpg
2. Medium angle loft - requires visual IP an exact known distance from target, pre-determined time/distance IP to pullup set in timer, pullup exactly like O/S, but release at ~45 degrees nose up, then a hard wingover of 135 deg. in heading & escape at max speed. More accurate than O/S, but less escape time. Accurate enough for conventional weapons, but not used due to lack of good visual IPs, and low alt run in (small arms vulnerability).
3. Low angle loft - same as M/A above, but release at ~22 deg., also wingover departure. Most accurate of the 3 lofts, the only one I ever used in NVN (twice) for rippling off six MK-82 w/ good results, on a radar site with a good IP (very scarce). The only target we ever had, which had an IP to allow raining bombs on target accurately without ever going feet dry, Sam Son radar site, our very favorite target!!!;)
4. Laydown delivery - used for low-yield nuclear (parachute-retarded), or conventional (snake-eye retarded) weapons. Used normally for cratering runways, 500'/500kt. run in, bombsight aimed, very accurate, however; extremely vulnerable to small arms fire. Conventional laydown great for troop CAS & downed pilot support.

Hope this answers your questions, remember that the above is a snapshot of Light Attack 50 years ago when we had the dual mission of one leg of the nuclear triad (befor the boomers arrival), plus the conventional mission of the Vietnam air war. I'm sure it seems antiquated to cutting edge Warriors & their Hornets of today. Except for warrior spirit, it has all changed: Aircraft, equipment, weapons, tactics, enemies, threats etc. But ya' know, we were "cutting edge" back then, too!:p
*Sam Son Today!
Sam Son Today.jpg
BzB:cool:
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
Did you guys ever practice the over the shoulder with shapes or dumb Bombs?
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Did you guys ever practice the over the shoulder with shapes or dumb Bombs?
Shapes Yes... Dumb bombs no, except mostly 25# MK-76 practice bombs, w/ nose spotting charge (ballistically simulates MK-80 Series low drag bombs). :)
MK-76 25# Practice Bomb.jpg
BzB
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Ah, Blue Death. The more things change . . .
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
BZB, They did a practice lad with the real thing and not a BDU? I was a Nuc Weps Officer both in the 80s for a squadron and in the 90s for a CVN. That would never have happened. One little scratch on a BDU was an OPREP and a scratch on a real one was an earth shattering event. I can't imagine doing a load with a real one for any reason other than an actual mission.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Can you imagine how many endorsements there would be an OPREP for a lost nuke? We lost an exercise torpedo on a range, had audio of tape of the torp running and then imploding and we still had to do an OPREP-3.

Of course it could be worse... Imagine being the duty officer when your squadron lost something like this???
 

Pugs

Back from the range
None
Did you guys ever practice the over the shoulder with shapes or dumb Bombs?
I don't know the delivery method but back in the day if you were running the range at NFL around the B-16 complex nuke target it was not unusual to see parachutes from shapes on the target that were dropped by the A-6's doing their NWTPI flights.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
There were actually 4 different nuclear deliveries:

4. Laydown delivery - used for low-yield nuclear (parachute-retarded), or conventional (snake-eye retarded) weapons. Used normally for cratering runways, 500'/500kt. run in, bombsight aimed, very accurate, however; extremely vulnerable to small arms fire. Conventional laydown great for troop CAS & downed pilot support.
BzB:cool:
I hope you're not implying this was ever an option for "specials"...;)
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I hope you're not implying this was ever an option for "specials"...;)
I am implying exactly that... Laydown was the delivery of choice, for runway destruction for 2 different (low-yield option) "specials" in the '60s. This delivery did afford the A-4 safe escape distance at max-thrust (at least thats what we were told... who knows?). Both weapons were much like ejecting TomCat Drivers, "parachute retarded"!:p

Untold/unmentioned, but we "no slack in Light Attackers" always sensed that our SIOP inland target missions were like the parallel streets in my home town... ONE WAY!:(
BzB:)
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
BZB, They did a practice lad with the real thing and not a BDU?
Yes, normally BDUs were used for loading drills; however. I recall several times when actual weps (minus arming device) were used for loading drills, & at least one end-of-deployment fly-off to NAS Barbers Pt. w/ special wpns to be transferred to the next west bound CV prior to it's WestPac INCHOP. We also conducted a complete loading/launch drill during our Hawaii ORI, flying the specs into Barbers, then reloading them aboard pierside at Pearl prior to departing for WestPac. I suspect rhe rules on loading/launching spec weps were changed after the incident above, and several other lesser 'broken arrow' incidents involving both USN & USAF weapons.
BzB:)
 

Pugs

Back from the range
None
Untold/unmentioned, but we "no slack in Light Attackers" always sensed that our SIOP inland target missions were like the parallel streets in my home town... ONE WAY!:(
BzB:)

Don't feel too badly. You could have been a SPAD driver on a SIOP mission. Pretty much a guarantee you were going to see a portable sun up close. :D
 
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