Sitting in MEDHOLD at OCS with two options....

[john90]

I figured I'd make this thread in an attempt to gather some insight from you all into my situation. I came in with the February class here at OCS and my designator is SNA. Essentially, in the months prior to coming to OCS I have been on an extreme workout regimen along with working on my feet for up to 60-70 hrs a week. My left leg had been getting strangely sore during the cool down after runs of about 4 to 5 miles but I just chalked it up to the typical pains of running. But about a week prior to coming to OCS I went on a 45 minute run and at the end of it my leg was really killing me... the next day I could barely walk.
Naturally I was a bit paranoid, but decided that I'd just rest it the week before coming to OCS and the most we'd ever run here is 3 miles, and that wasn't for a while. Long story short, during the first week on the IST it just fell apart. I finished the run in a decent time, but could barely stand after. I have now been in MEDHOLD here for 11 weeks and they have decided to give me a temporary NPQ to let me go home and rest. BUT I have to reapply, essentially starting over. Over the course of these past 11 weeks my leg has improved a lot, but when I go on 3 mile runs, I still have that feeling in my leg that it might go back in a bad direction.
My question is, should I take the option to go home for a few months, re-apply and come back knowing I'm good to go (my recruiter is confident I'll be re-selected). Or should I challenge the NPQ, which they said I can, and try and gut through the training and hope my leg stays well? The real kicker is that if it does go south again if I stay, I'm looking at a permanent NPQ versus a temporary one. But while I'm here my SNA slot is safe.
I want to get through this more than anything, but is going home to recover a smarter investment in my military career?
I'm paranoid seeing as I have had three Marine OCS classes cancelled on me and this is my first time actually being in the position where I have everything set in stone. I believe the navy will owant me back considering their investment in me as well as my NPQ letter just being a temporary "runners knee" diagnosis. As well as my degree being from a very prestigious college, triple 7's on the ASTB and my private pilots license and prior Marine ROTC experience. But what are your opinions?

Sorry for the long ramble, I'm writing this in the only place on base with internet and they close in 5 minutes

 

[Dangy]

When you reapply, can your OR simply resubmit everything on your application? @RUFiO181 and @National OPO, can you clarify on this?

How far are you into training? Can you attempt to get a thorough exam on your leg and get permission wear a leg brace as an extra precaution if everything checks out fine?

I say it's best to not risk anything permanent whether its a NPQ or injury. A SNA slot may always be there, but a bad leg injury can ruin any chances you have to be in the military, especially if you were in the first month of training.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

How far are you into training?

Sounds like he rolled into Med Hold after the IST, week 1.

How were your stats going in? Was your ASTB pretty solid with at least a 3 point something? If your application was pretty competitive, I would take the temp NPQ, make sure your leg is fine, and then reapply, assuming you're not close to the max age.
Go find some sort of leg doctor (orthopedics?) and get it checked out, go to a running store like Fleet Feet to see if a change in footwear helps (minimalist shoes may encourage a different kind of stride which could help you out, just not those FiveFingers because they're not allowed and they don't work and they're getting sued or something). Don't run more than 2-3 miles or 30 minutes, because there's no point to running more than that anyway. Take up something more low-impact to supplement short runs, like biking or swimming or rowing.

 

[BusyBee604]

I believe the navy will owant me back considering their investment in me as well as my NPQ letter just being a temporary "runners knee" diagnosis. As well as my degree being from a very prestigious college, triple 7's on the ASTB and my private pilots license and prior Marine ROTC experience.

Others more knowledgeable than I (probably professional medical types), are more qualified to address your problem. I can tell you; however, the accomplishments highlighted above, although certainly noteworthy, are totally unrelated to your medical problem, and would never be considered as a mitigating factor in a PQ/PDQ determination.

Another point to be considered is that the Navy's investment in you at this point, is relatively much less than it will be down the road, after flight training/FRS, then in the fleet. If your leg goes south then... that's a huge investment lost.

But what are your opinions?

Not trying to discourage you from seeking a solution, but the best advice/answers to your predicament will come from a qualified Navy Flight Surgeon. Recommend you post your situation on the Flight Surgeon thread, on the medical Doc's Corner Forum. Several experienced FSs pop in there fairly often, giving great advice. Best of luck!
BzB

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I say take the temp DQ, rest your legs, and reapply when you have a clean bill of health from your doctor. Nothing is worth risking permanent damage tying to ride the storm.

 

[Renegade One]

This does not sound normal, and I'm frankly surprised you haven't been given a full ortho evaluation by the Navy Docs…x-rays, MRI, whatever…to figure out what the issue truly is. Maybe you have been…just wasn't obvious. Seems to me you should have been given a THIRD option…MEDHOLD until we figure this out and fix it…then continue. "Go Away" or "Gut It Out" don't seem to be the best options…since the Navy kinda sorta OWNS you…right now. Probably something I'm missing or unaware of...

 

[john90]

I was given an MRI about the third week I was here. It came back clean and the doctors chalked it up to a simple, "you overdid it and gave yourself a deeply scarred, angry muscle". At that point the physical therapist here had me come in three times a week to do strength therapy. This only seemed to cause my leg to stay stagnant, so I sought out a chiropractor. The navy chiropractor was the one who had to call the physical therapist and tell him he was doing the exact opposite of what I needed. I don't have strength problem, I came to OCS in very good shape, I just have what any athlete can get, which is an overuse issue that just needs a little time.
At that point the physical therapist changed his diagnosis and stopped seeing me, but told me that unless I classed up with the next class, he was going to recommend NPQ temporarily. I told him I could run the distances needed but after I finished my leg would start hurting like the devil was in there. He just looked at me and said whether I go back in was up to my "thresh hold for pain". The chiropractor, who has been much more progressive about this, talked me out of trying, since he said the muscle is on the edge of failure from the overuse scarring. On top of that, the physical therapist was the one who threatened me with the permanent NPQ if I go back in and end up relapsing.
Essentially, I feel I have been bullied into a corner and now that I have been moved to student pool and my leg is feeling much, much better, I get the feeling the physical therapist is pushing for me to head out. I was able to get this very nice NPQ, which essentially says I have runners knee and can reapply. MEDHOLD has been having issues with people milking the system, and I was even told to my face that he (the physical therapist) wanted to mitigate us from doing that. And it's true, there are some people here who have been in MEDHOLD for almost a year and who have simply gotten out of shape and who feign things to stay in MEDHOLD and draw a paycheck seeing as they're too worried to go back into training. Whereas I have been pushing, working out with weights and working myself back into running as quickly as possible. Only to find myself being pushed out the door and threatened with permanent NPQ if I go in and just so happen to relapse.... WHeras the ones who have been around for so long have gone in multiple times, only to come right back.
I am trying to gauge what my rights are, or if it is simply a good idea to cut away and return with a clean slate. My GPA in college was not the greatest, but it was average for the University, at a 2.8. But I also worked full time through school, which they took into consideration. Private pilots license with 200 hrs. SAT's were very high and my ASTB and OAR score were in the top 5%. Also have thousands of volunteer hours with an aviation museum, Civil Air Patrol Cadet Commander and with the DAV as flight crew on a B-25. My recruiter even explained my situation to the district commander and he gave him special permission to submit my package on the next board as a SNA despite them not having any more spots for SNA's for the fiscal year. So in my mind they're cutting me a good deal. But, of course, while I'm here at least it's guaranteed.

 

[LFCFan]

If it makes you feel any better/worse, an OCS classmate of mine went about a year before me as SNFO, got hurt, went home, reapplied, and got SNA. The staff were thrilled to see him there.

Problem was that his injury was a stress fracture, and then he got NPQed from aviation and is now a suppo. This was a year ago, almost to the day. Just keep in mind that even if you get PQed for OCS, there are things that can keep you from flying. I'll let the medical types on here address that possibility, if there is one at all.

Have you asked to speak with the CO? I know that at least with the student pool super candios he got a weekly update on their redesignation/medical progress. There were a few cases where students stuck in King Hall were able to speak with him about their situation. If you explain your desire to stay, that you aren't milking the system, and that your not-great GPA might hurt you trying to reapply despite an otherwise stellar application, he might put his foot down in your favor, or at least offer to help you reapply (additional LoR or something) if you have to go home.

Are you still in contact with your original class officer? Mine was a great advocate for me, I wouldn't particularly entrust my future to the chief running Sierra Papa and med hold (whoever that is right now).

 

[john90]

If it makes you feel any better/worse, an OCS classmate of mine went about a year before me as SNFO, got hurt, went home, reapplied, and got SNA. The staff were thrilled to see him there.

Problem was that his injury was a stress fracture, and then he got NPQed from aviation and is now a suppo. This was a year ago, almost to the day. Just keep in mind that even if you get PQed for OCS, there are things that can keep you from flying. I'll let the medical types on here address that possibility, if there is one at all.

Have you asked to speak with the CO? I know that at least with the student pool super candios he got a weekly update on their redesignation/medical progress. There were a few cases where students stuck in King Hall were able to speak with him about their situation. If you explain your desire to stay, that you aren't milking the system, and that your not-great GPA might hurt you trying to reapply despite an otherwise stellar application, he might put his foot down in your favor, or at least offer to help you reapply (additional LoR or something) if you have to go home.

Are you still in contact with your original class officer? Mine was a great advocate for me, I wouldn't particularly entrust my future to the chief running Sierra Papa and med hold (whoever that is right now).

I have been in touch with my original recruiter and he seems more than happy to get me back in the application process ASAP. Luckily my NPQ is a simple sports medicine issue, I would hope runners knee, as light of an issue as it is, would not stop me from flying. My biggest worry, in all honesty, is my vision. I always just squeaked by with 20/40 and every time I do the test I am terrified.

I will get to meet with the CO before I leave and I got permission to draft up my own letter of rec for him to sign. My plan is to make it clear that the purpose of my leaving is to heal and to return as I am still fully qualified and desired to be a naval officer. We just had a CO change of command today so I am not really sure if the new CO is as willing. But he is an aviator so I am hoping he will be slightly sympathetic towards this. Besides that, my GPA was not terrible, and my school actually falls in the top tier for the navy for most desirable. And they weigh my GPA so that say a 2.5 there would be the equivalent of a 3.5 at other schools. To take in consideration the much more rigorous workload that any ivy league level school entails.

All the staff here are trying to get me to relax about this. My recruiter said he has no doubt I'll get re-selected and the district commander greenlighted my SNA application going in despite their not submiting anymore SNA's for the district. In fact most of the staff are warning me to just not come back too soon... before my leg is fully healed. Based off all this do you think I can be entirely comfortable taking this light temp NPQ and re-applying. Or put up a fight to stay? On a related note to that, and I know you all will balk at this, but after 15 weeks of being a janitor here in N4 and doing all sorts of other mundane tasks, a brief break before going back in, to be mentally refreshed, would be welcome.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

My recruiter said he has no doubt I'll get re-selected and the district commander greenlighted my SNA application going in despite their not submiting anymore SNA's for the district.

I think the OR you worked with is trying to get you to think he is doing you a big favor, Pilot and NFO boards are rolling so they are always accepting applications, the National OPO has been good about updating this site on designator issues and Pilot being closed isn't one of them.

 

[LFCFan]

I will get to meet with the CO before I leave and I got permission to draft up my own letter of rec for him to sign. My plan is to make it clear that the purpose of my leaving is to heal and to return as I am still fully qualified and desired to be a naval officer. We just had a CO change of command today so I am not really sure if the new CO is as willing. But he is an aviator so I am hoping he will be slightly sympathetic towards this.

Sounds like you've got a relatively solid plan. To be clear, you are NOT DORing, right? This is a no-shit NPQ, albeit temporary?

I'm glad to hear the new skipper is an aviator, for a few reasons. I think that having OCS produce more aviators than any other one community means that there are unique issues that folks in other designators don't understand. Hopefully he will do something about the fact that folks can get NPQed for things discovered/disclosed at MEPS, or more likely put the pressure on the big bosses to change the policy a bit.

Alas, he is not an AOCS grad, I was hoping that he might be so that he could undo some of the watering down that has gone on in the last year (or the last 20, depending on who you are talking to).

 

[nugget81]

Like everyone has been saying, take the temp NPQ, LET YOURSELF HEAL, and then come back & rock the program. If you made it once, you can do it again.

 

[Flash]

...Alas, he is not an AOCS grad, I was hoping that he might be so that he could undo some of the watering down that has gone on in the last year (or the last 20, depending on who you are talking to).

Try 200 years, you ain't that special.

 

[john90]

I am thinking that taking the temporary NPQ is the smartest investment. I understand that it is not in the interest of the navy to be paying someone who is essentially doing busy work to fill in time. The rough part of it is, I am not really sure where to go or what to do in the mean time.... I plan on being as expeditious with the reapplication process as possible. But this will still put me getting back in 4 to 6 months at the earliest. I had to sell everything I had just to have the money to get up here and to buy all the necessary items for OCS. I saw it as my big break away from the destitution I had been enduring in college. Where, due to my family's divorce situation, I was stuck in a weird position of not being qualified for financial aid but not receiving any aid from my family. After working full time every year through college and watching those in ROTC with me have everything paid for, plus $375 a month spending money, on top of my Marine OCS classes cancelled, I am just a little discouraged. (I didn't get my marine rotc scholarship out of high school due to my recruiter just literally not submitting it, as he was retiring).
I'm not portraying this as a sob story, I am proud of the fact that I still made it to OCS despite being on the short end of the stick these past 5 years. Every time I hit a challenge or setback my immediate reaction is to work on the next solution. Which I hope was apparent through my being progressive with my recruiter while still here in MEDHOLD. My question with this is twofold; should I bring this extensive hardship background up to the XO and CO when I meet with them? And how should I portray it. Again, I am not looking for pity, I will be proud of my struggles once everything is behind me and I have earned my bars, because I will know I earned them with every fiber of my being.
Thanks everyone for your advice, it is very appreciated during this process.