Shore tour options, Masters degrees, and their effects on careers...

[nfo2b]

I've read some posts that have given me a very general idea that my choice of shore duty after my first squadron tour can and will be a determining factor on my chances at advancement and command. And while some may say that asking questions such as those that follow may be a bit premature from someone at my stage in the pipeline (not even in the pipe yet--still in college), I want to go into the pipeline armed with as much objective (and some subjective) information as possible. So here goes:
Can anyone give me some specific information on how the following factors affect an NFO's chances at O-5/6/Command?:

1. Masters type--i.e. MBA, for which I have no desire, vs. a technical degree, such as an MS in Mech Eng or something masochistically cool like that
2. Shore duty type: i.e. ROTC vs. IP vs. NPS vs. USNA vs. other stuff
3. Aviation vs. non-aviation: i.e. choosing a shore duty which keeps me somewhat attached to my community vs. one which is completely separate and unrelated, like NPS or another masters program

If it seems that my questions seem centered on my Masters' ambitions, it's because they are. I know how much the Navy wants as many of its officers to pursue graduate degrees as possible (and even require them for >=O-5, from what I understand), but I've observed a trend in many of the officers that I've been around--many seem to be going the easy routes--e.g. MBA vs. distance learning, MBA while NROTC instructor, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with these, but the thing is, I don't want an MBA. I mean I really don't want an MBA. It's not that I think there's anything wrong with it, it's just that it's not the education I feel that I want or need. I changed my degree last semester from Mechanical Engineering to Engineering Management (still an engineering degree) with the idea that I would continue my engineering education with a technical masters program. However, this decision may have been a bit ill-planned, since it seems to me that the few shore duties that will allow me to get a technical engineering masters degree are antithetical to the preferred shore duties for career advancement. This is the crux of my concerns here.
So if any of you salty (or sandy, for you P-3 bubbas ) aviators out there can shed some light on this issue for me, in a bit more depth than has already been covered in these forums, I'd be sincerely appreciative.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I'm currently working on my masters degree in National Security Studies. Easy?....hell no. PM me if you want details and we can talk specifics.

-SLW

 

[Rg9]

See if you can get hooked up with doing a masters right upon graduation (there are a couple ways to go about this). Since it's a NOB fitrep assignment, it's not a big deal to do it as an O-1. But if you did a masters as an O-3, then you might not be as competetive for promotion (if you do it as a full-time student, thus NOB fitrep).

 

[Brett327]

Generally speaking, the aviation community is going to consider educational tours as neutral at best. Now, that's not to say that it will wreck your career, but it certainly won't help it. I know several guys who have screened for command with that 2-3 year NOB fitrep time that an educational tour comes with. Here's my perspective - if your utilmate goal is command and beyond, then don't worry about getting a technical graduate degree. If you succeed, you certainly won't need it when you retire. I wouldn't worry about advanced degrees in the short term. The Navy will provide you with ample opportunity to get whatever is required to remain upwardly mobile (War College, distance learning, etc.) There are certain 1st shore tour bilets which are acknowledged as being career enhansing like RAG, VX, NSAWC, weapons schools ect. By the time those decisions roll around, there will be plenty of people in your command to advise you on what dirction you should take. Relax, get a feel for the fleet, then decide on what direction you need to take.

Good times,

Brett

 

[Kolja]

My $.02 is that there are a finite number of years for flying, and plenty of time to get a masters after you can't fly anymore (besides - after I'm done with the Navy if I find myself in a postion where I will need to have a masters, I'm going to kick my own ass).

Fly till they won't let you anymore, I say - but that's just me.

 

[Fred]

Generally speaking, the aviation community is going to consider educational tours as neutral at best. Now, that's not to say that it will wreck your career, but it certainly won't help it. I know several guys who have screened for command with that 2-3 year NOB fitrep time that an educational tour comes with. Here's my perspective - if your utilmate goal is command and beyond, then don't worry about getting a technical graduate degree. If you succeed, you certainly won't need it when you retire.
Good times,

Brett

It certainly can help it. Depending on the path a person takes post command, it may be required. As far as needing it upon retirement it would depend on the career aspirations. The technical degrees my husband earned during a NOB tour upped his earning power in the civilian world immensely. Add to that the training the Navy gave him because of his technical background....IF he ever retires we will be living VERY comfortably.

 

[saltpeter]

Try to get a joint billet and work on a masters degree online. An MBA may not light your fire, but it looks like it lights the Navy's fire. The masters is a check in the box for 04, so you'll need to finish it on your first shore tour. Even the war college has a correspondece program. Although a correspondece program requires a higher level of self discipline, it offers the flexibilty you'll need working full time.

 

[bennett4362]

i really don't know anything about this, so i'm asking just out of curiosity reading these posts, but...

does it have to be either/or? i mean does it have to be either an MBA or a master's in some electronic engineering thing? there are other master's degrees out there. would one of those work just as well?

 

[beau]

yeah I dont know man, I keep hearing this rumor every once in a while that you are going to "NEED" a graduate degree to be competitive for 0-5 and beyond in "TODAYS" navy. I personally am not that fond of education systems around the country and could care less about another degree...but the military colleges are very good from what I hear.

The reason that I am not that fond of school is that fact that anyone with a library card could have learned three quarters of what I learned in college and paid almost nothing for it. You really are just (over) paying to learn study skills, time management, and how to build relationships (which I still suck at!)....and you get a little "i'm better than you" piece of paper when you are done.

it's amazing that some of the most successful people in this country are college dropouts.

 

[Fred]

i really don't know anything about this, so i'm asking just out of curiosity reading these posts, but...

does it have to be either/or? i mean does it have to be either an MBA or a master's in some electronic engineering thing? there are other master's degrees out there. would one of those work just as well?

I know many who have a Masters of Arts in Strategic Planning and National Security. (Earned at the War College) A joint education and back ground appears like it's going to be very important for the officers in the Navy of the future. The Post Grad school in Monterey offers many different degrees in various areas of study.

 

[Brett327]

It certainly can help it. Depending on the path a person takes post command, it may be required. As far as needing it upon retirement it would depend on the career aspirations. The technical degrees my husband earned during a NOB tour upped his earning power in the civilian world immensely. Add to that the training the Navy gave him because of his technical background....IF he ever retires we will be living VERY comfortably.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. NOB time, especially when you're young is always a detractor from how your record looks to selection and screening boards. Like I said before, it's not worthless, or something that an otherwise strong record can't overcome, but it is, all else being equal, a negative. If the Navy has a requirement for grad degrees, they will make ample opportunity to get that done without having to suck up an NOB billet. As for post-retirement, if you make it to command and beyond, contractors will scoop you up regardless of what kind of degrees you have.

Good times,

Brett

 

[H60Gunr]

If you come into the Navy having one, what does the do for your career down the road?

 

[lance]

Any former BDCP guys out there with recommendations on when/how to get your Masters.

 

[saltpeter]

H60GUNr,
It gives you bragging rights.

 

[Kolja]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. NOB time, especially when you're young is always a detractor from how your record looks to selection and screening boards. Like I said before, it's not worthless, or something that an otherwise strong record can't overcome, but it is, all else being equal, a negative. If the Navy has a requirement for grad degrees, they will make ample opportunity to get that done without having to suck up an NOB billet. As for post-retirement, if you make it to command and beyond, contractors will scoop you up regardless of what kind of degrees you have.

Good times,

Brett

Agreed about the NOB. Long stretches of NOB went over very poorly at the selection board I witnessed. Plus, depending on how you get your masters (ie, did you pay for it or the navy??) and your detailer, you could find yourself in a "payback" tour that might quickly having you wondering if it was worth it in the first place.