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Selected P-3 out of Advanced

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
I saw a bit of this in the fleet, including a failed 2P check that evolved into "volunteering" for an IA (with an FRS refresher on the back end).
In that case our illustrious squadron did throw A LOT of resources at the individual in an attempt to qualify them but then they volunteered for an IA resulting in the question of "why did we do all this for you just to have you volunteer to play grunt?"
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Not really. I've heard this before, so it doesn't surprise me, yeah there is an expected order that the Training Officer is tracking upgraders but you aren't going to hold back a guy or gal on the fast track because someone is taking too long to prep for the board. Yeah maybe some delays due to assets. But it's not that difficult to put a board together. Might be painful for a few of the qualled bubbas that have to sit a lot of the boards in a short time frame. Anyways, don't let the dude or duddette who's dragging their feet and on the 20-24 month plan slow you down.
In some squadrons the "you can't skip and upgrader ahead of you" was an unwritten, and very stupid, JOPA rule. Glad it wasn't the case in every Wing.

Seriously? If you're going to FNAEB a kid for not getting his quals, the only reason should be he just wasn't ready, not that he wasn't given opprtunities and training. "Turn in your wings so the squadron doesn't look bad" seems a bit fucked up. VAW had this issue when one squadron wasn't deploying for years due to the CAG-Boat imbalance; they fostered out their JOs to squadrons on deployment so they could get sign-offs and hours.
During the P-3 dark ages (post- Red Stripes) a lot of squadrons were uneasy with the idea of having to explain months of upgrading pilots not receiving minimum flight hours and waiting a a month or so in between upgrading events. Lots of opportunities to ask uncomfortable questions and expose areas where the squadrons could have done better with training and resource allocation.

Ultimately the community solved some of the resource allocation issues by providing squadrons with less pilots so there would eventually be a ratio that was conducive to making minimums consistently.

I was on surge with a squadron where the front office pulled in an upgrading pilot and after pre-emptively negotiating with PERS, offered transfer deal in exchange for her bowing out before they FNAEB'd her... Why go through so much trouble instead of letting nature run its course? They were afraid of how it would look trying to kick out a female of a minortiy ethnic background and the Pandora's box that would open on the squadron.
 
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squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
In that case our illustrious squadron did throw A LOT of resources at the individual in an attempt to qualify them but then they volunteered for an IA resulting in the question of "why did we do all this for you just to have you volunteer to play grunt?"
The background extends even further, all the way through the establishment of HSC-2 as a full-up FRS and even into helo advanced's transition to MPTS.

BLOB: There were a lot of changes throughout the NAE during 2005-2007 time frame that resulted in big impacts.
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
The background extends even further, all the way through the establishment of HSC-2 as a full-up FRS and even into helo advanced's transition to MPTS.

BLOB: There were a lot of changes throughout the NAE during 2005-2007 time frame that resulted in big impacts.
22?
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
22.

For the stats-aware, that's close to 3 sigmas, or the 0.3rd percentile.

(was this person's observer for their solo, can confirm scary)
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Assuming I don't get a FNAEB. Will I transition to the P8 with the worst case scenario of timing?
Potentially not with the worse case... There's a chance that you'll be rolled from your sea tour early if your timing doesn't work for the transition to give the community a big enough return on the investment... This has been happening to some Hawaii JOs recently.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
That happened in Jax as well, though many people get extended. I did 42 months in my squadron vice the 36 months my orders were written for. I'd say 42 months was the average in my squadron for people going through transition, and we had 2 guys who did 48 months! If you show you're a dumbass and not worth the squadron's time and a transition slot, you might get kicked out early. Some people who simply got unlucky, regardless of qualification, got moved to shore duty early.

And yes, the Hawaii squadrons are transitioning first before the legacy CPRW-10 squadrons.
 
@CommodoreMid thanks for the info. I guess it comes down to timing and the needs of the Navy. I'll work hard to earn my qualifications. Any other advice on how to position myself as an individual the squadron wants to transition?
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
@CommodoreMid thanks for the info. I guess it comes down to timing and the needs of the Navy. I'll work hard to earn my qualifications. Any other advice on how to position myself as an individual the squadron wants to transition?
Never let them think you have any ambition to leave the community... Never talk Airlines, VTs or VPU... Show public interest in boat tours, VP-30/ MPRAWS, and the path to be a DH and CO...
 

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor
Never let them think you have any ambition to leave the community... Never talk Airlines, VTs or VPU... Show public interest in boat tours, VP-30/ MPRAWS, and the path to be a DH and CO...
I agree not to show your true cards if your intent is to bail, but you don't have to play total company man either. I made it very clear from the beginning that I wanted test and to keep flying. My phrase was always "I don't want to close any doors and want to keep my options open."
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
I agree not to show your true cards if your intent is to bail, but you don't have to play total company man either. I made it very clear from the beginning that I wanted test and to keep flying. My phrase was always "I don't want to close any doors and want to keep my options open."
That's the way many of us played it, but if his timing sucks as much as he's making it out to, and his goal is to be P-8 driver then being an absolute company man is the probably safest way for him to him to have the biggest shot.

He'll figure out how well he likes the VPenis once he gets into the fleet and sees how the sausage is made. He can make his decision on how he wants to play things after his first 6 months or so.
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
That's the way many of us played it, but if his timing sucks as much as he's making it out to, and his goal is to be P-8 driver then being an absolute company man is the probably safest way for him to him to have the biggest shot.

He'll figure out how well he likes the VPenis once he gets into the fleet and sees how the sausage is made. He can make his decision on how he wants to play things after his first 6 months or so.
Unless shockingly he goes to a good squadron that has solid DHs and front office that mentors and helps them get where they want to go in the Navy and make personal goals happen. I concur with keeping some of your cards close to your chest but you should definitely try and not burn any bridges. One of the only ways you are going to learn about career options is asking questions and hopefully solid mentorship. My peer group has had quite the ballistic spread of guys and gals going different routes and success. Test pilots. Command of VP, VTs. Transitioned to FAO, HR and Intel. And of course those that got out of the Navy and went on to the civilian side. I have friends working their way up corporate America and regional managers and VOs with ATT, medical companies, Gulf Stream and of course the bubbas like me that went to the majors.

I've seen a lot of my peers change their life and personal goals over the years. It's not a good or bad thing but I think it is important to keep those doors open and options available to you. The best way to do that is be a professional and play well with others. Peers and superiors will try and help, but if you're an asshat, then not so much.

The other thread on work hours also has some bearing here. You really need to strive for a work life balance. Might be hard during those phases in flight school, upgrading, and deployments but having a way to decompress and outlet is key. Don't miss out on life, kids growing up, or enjoying your personal hobbies. Qualify early, fly a great plane well and you will do just fine.
 

robav8r

D-FENS
None
Contributor
I agree not to show your true cards if your intent is to bail, but you don't have to play total company man either. I made it very clear from the beginning that I wanted test and to keep flying. My phrase was always "I don't want to close any doors and want to keep my options open."
Good stuff above. We don't talk enough about good, strategic, "mentor-focused" leadership that understands giving away power and knowledge only makes the wardroom stronger. If you allow JO's the freedom to "explore" and grow while upholding solid professional standards, they will develop into leaders that are good for everyone, even if that means another community or career path. Stanley McChrystals book "Team of Teams" talks about this kind of leadership, and their are many others of course. Great leaders will show their cards and empower their organizations, even if their subordinates are hesitant to show theirs . . . .
 
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