SECNAV Criticizes 'Blueberries'

[Flash]

Recently the House Armed Services Committee passed a bill to require all the military services use the same type of camouflage uniform by 2016. Apparently now SECNAV is getting in the mix by criticizing NWUs "The Navy 'blueberries' – I don't know what the name is, that's what sailors call them – the great camouflage it gives is if you fall overboard".

Not sure exactly what has spurred all of this, I am thinking the budget squeeze has definitely helped coupled with the Army's ACU fiasco that they have spent years and a lot of money trying to fix, but this recent article highlights some of the absurdities of the 4 services developing 10 different 'camouflage' uniforms over the last ten years. I love the last line concerning the wear of Navy NWU Type III 'woodland' instead of Type II 'desert' uniforms in the desert because the Marines thought it was too close to their beloved pattern (which aren't much different than the CADPAT previously develped Canucks BTW):

"The Pentagon’s long and expensive search for new camouflage uniforms had previously defied logic. Now it would defy camouflage itself. It ended with U.S. service members wearing green in the desert."

 

[Recovering LSO]

Might be one of the only of this SECNAV's major initiatives that I'm in complete agreement with.

 

[Spekkio]

"The Pentagon’s long and expensive search for new camouflage uniforms had previously defied logic. Now it would defy camouflage itself. It ended with U.S. service members wearing green in the desert."

Like some did at the onset of OEF/OIF?

Passed the House...will it pass the Senate and Presidential veto? Also, if the USMC has an 'award winning' uniform, why don't they share or why can't Congress make them instead of spending millions on developing inferior independent solutions?

Noting that the Army alone spent over $10 million to try to make a uniform that as effective as MARPAT, when the USMC did it on $320k, makes me throwup a little.

 

[squeeze]

Noting that the Army alone spent over $10 million to try to make a uniform that as effective as MARPAT, when the USMC did it on $320k, makes me throwup a little.

That's how we do!

Of course we make up for it with Plopters/Unicorns/EFV/AFV-esque projects.

 

[Renegade One]

Might be one of the only of this SECNAV's major initiatives that I'm in complete agreement with.

Noting that the Army alone spent over $10 million to try to make a uniform that as effective as MARPAT, when the USMC did it on $320k, makes me throwup a little.

No shit. This whole thingie about service-unique combat uniforms (or any other form of camo, since no one would ever call NWUs a "combat uniform") is crap. While the Marines may have done it "economically", I blame them for starting the snowball down-hill.

Pick one design…pick two/three environmental patterns. Make 'em the same for everyone who needs a combat uniform. I know, I know…we'll never get beyond the fact that the Army will always need scads of Velcro on each shoulder for patches, tabs, flags, etc., even though everyone else seems to get by with exactly none of that.

 

[Spekkio]

You can add some velcro for unit patches and remove the Marine symbols from the pattern for a lot less than $10 m.

There is plenty of service identity in service and dress uniforms. For killing uniforms, we should use what works.

 

[BackOrdered]

Also, if the USMC has an 'award winning' uniform, why don't they share or why can't Congress make them instead of spending millions on developing inferior independent solutions?

I believe the Marines copyrighted the design much like the NWU pattern and the odd rules there. I was also told the Marine Corps wants the enemy to know "they done **** up!" when they see them in MARPATs. I can agree with that, true or not. It does bring a psychological edge that can demoralize an enemy.

Second, why is it the Marine Corps' problem that the other branches can't get their act together and make a functional uniform? The problem is bigger than making the Marine Corps the other branches' keeper with uniforms. All the services need to know how to identify their mission and need and make a garment accordingly vice that approach.

 

[Spekkio]

First, I think it's absurd that a sub-section of the armed services is able to copyright and monopolize a camoflauge pattern. I can't wrap my head around how that happens. That is the same as copyrighting M-16 service rifles and telling other services that they ought to find their own functional weaponry. While each service performs a specialized function, the purpose of wearing camoflauge is the same: to make the individual difficult to discern from the background. This transcends services operating in the same theater, and there will always be one pattern that works best in each environment. If the Marines have found the best pattern and utility with angled pockets, then they ought to share. Ditto if it's the multi-cam pattern with velcro and horizontal pockets.

It's the Marine's problem because they decided it was more important to piss and moan about a camoflauge pattern than to ensure other services enjoyed the same benefits of its utility. So the Army has pissed away over $10 million developing a sub-optimal solution. Read the article -- they complained the NWU was too close to MARPAT, and no one can mistake a Sailor in 'blueberries' for a Marine.

I can't speak to the shock factor -- I haven't interviewed any insurgents to find out if they are more scared of MARPAT than ACUs, and I'm guessing you haven't either.

 

[Flash]

I believe the Marines copyrighted the design much like the NWU pattern and the odd rules there. I was also told the Marine Corps wants the enemy to know "they done **** up!" when they see them in MARPATs. I can agree with that, true or not. It does bring a psychological edge that can demoralize an enemy.......

......Also, if the USMC has an 'award winning' uniform, why don't they share.......Noting that the Army alone spent over $10 million to try to make a uniform that as effective as MARPAT, when the USMC did it on $320k, makes me throwup a little.

The Marines are great about creating legends even when they don't exist (blood stripe, Teufelshunden) and MARPAT is one of those legends that seems to have a bit more fantasy than fact after hearing the supposed story of it's creation repeatedly from various Marines, basically birthed by pure USMC awesomeness. The Marines were able to copyright the design because they have incorporated USMC-specific design elements into it, not because they were the first to come up with the idea for digital camouflage or even that particular pattern. As I noted in my original post the Canadian CADPAT design preceded the Marine digis by a few years and if you look close enough the pattern looks remarkably similar, the Canucks more green and the Marines more brown and black, though really which digi camo doesn't look similar except the colors?

We did need a new camo uniform by the time the Marines decided to get a new one over 10 years ago but they used existing research and designs to create their own on the cheap. Good on them for getting something fast, cheap and useful, we could certainly use a hell of a lot more of that in the military. But the legend about how it sprouted full-grown from the USMC like Athena out of Zeus's head and the jealously with which they guard their prerogative to wear a unique 'battle' uniform that no one else can have, or even something similar to it (which desert digi camo uniform isn't going to look alike?), is a bit much.

 

[BackOrdered]

The Marines are great about creating legends even when they don't exist (blood stripe, Teufelshunden) and MARPAT is one of those legends that seems to have a bit more fantasy than fact after hearing the supposed story of it's creation repeatedly from various Marines, basically birthed by pure USMC awesomeness. The Marines were able to copyright the design because they have incorporated USMC-specific design elements into it, not because they were the first to come up with the idea for digital camouflage or even that particular pattern. As I noted in my original post the Canadian CADPAT design preceded the Marine digis by a few years and if you look close enough the pattern looks remarkably similar, the Canucks more green and the Marines more brown and black, though really which digi camo doesn't look similar except the colors?

We did need a new camo uniform by the time the Marines decided to get a new one over 10 years ago but they used existing research and designs to create their own on the cheap. Good on them for getting something fast, cheap and useful, we could certainly use a hell of a lot more of that in the military. But the legend about how it sprouted full-grown from the USMC like Athena out of Zeus's head and the jealously with which they guard their prerogative to wear a unique 'battle' uniform that no one else can have, or even something similar to it (which desert digi camo uniform isn't going to look alike?), is a bit much.

I didn't know whether to rate this informative or funny.

 

[BigRed389]

I remain unconvinced the Navy and Air Force ever had an actual need to move away from BDUs/DCUs.

Proven by the fact that when given a chance to improve, one decided to go with generic throwback tiger stripes, and the other decided sailors need to blend into the water and turn into crispy critters when exposed to open flame.

 

[Flash]

I remain unconvinced the Navy and Air Force ever had an actual need to move away from BDUs/DCUs......

Having something that is wash and wear is nice, the BDU/DCUs weren't like that unless you wanted to look like a bag of ass......

 

[Hozer]

Equally embarrassing is the entire notion of "Task Force Uniform". Utterly ridiculous.

 

[BigRed389]

Having something that is wash and wear is nice, the BDU/DCUs weren't like that unless you wanted to look like a bag of ass......

Yeah, but that's an office dweller problem.

IMO, if an admin type is complaining about once a week uniform pressing for cubicle work, have them turn wrenches/stomp around in the mud or put them in khakis/Charlies until they either stop complaining or discover their new life calling.

 

[BackOrdered]

Equally embarrassing is the entire notion of "Task Force Uniform". Utterly ridiculous.

Is that the "purple" one?