Sad but True

[kimphil]

Jaerose,

The income tax margins were irrelevant in the 90s because the most successful made money from capital gains on the sale of their investments, not salary. Think Enron's Ken Lay got filthy rich on the 1st and 15th of the month? No, he got rich after illegally pumping up the price of his stock holdings and selling it. This is how most people increased their wealth in the 90s and this tax rate went down under Clinton and no one complained.Now some CEOs who got their tax cut got rich not by creating wealth through increasing productivity but by accounting dodges which no longer work are now clammering for tax cuts on dividends and income. Taxes are not a limitation on business innovation as Republicans would have you believe, its actually the incompetence of many businesses to increase productivity that's the true deterrent.

As far as you creating your own wealth, you don't deserve all the credit. Try creating your wealth in a third world country. You'll pay less in taxes I'm sure, but you'd have a hard time finding healthy, educated workers without good public schools and hospitals. Your products wouldn't move very far on dirt paths; you'd need a good infrastructure of paved road, rails and bridges. Crime and fire would probably would be a detriment to business without police and fire protection. The concept of private property wouldn't exist without an extensive court system to interpret laws and arbitrate differences. Your hard-earned tax dollars pays for all this and more. You'd have a difficult time creating wealth without any of these including transfers of wealth to the poor and working classes.

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Mongol General: ...Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

 

[room5047]

wildflyin-

as has been said, not everybody wants to help themselves. but many of the schoolkids you talk about have that mindset ("don't be what the Man wants you to be") because, when you grow up in a neighborhood that time appears to have forgotten, it's pretty damn natural to think the world is against you.

i used to be cpo of a sea cadet unit that basically started out as saturday day care for juvenile delinquents, but ended up pretty sh*t hot. i once had a problem cadet who happened to be black, with bad grades and from a po' single parent household. when i gave him a spot correction for screwing up drill, he got all huffy that i was singling him out for punishment cuz he was black, at which point i (not so coolly) explained to him that dirtbags came in all colors of the rainbow - he wasn't special, and if he had any desire to be a cadet he'd best lose all those stupid notions of oppression. i'd give him a fair chance if he put out. and he did. his grades came up and he started leading the way.

but he wouldn't have tried if there weren't something in it for him... I, as the cpo, had to dangle carrots like the possibility he might be a squad leader, a patrol member, a color guard participant - in return for his best efforts. i met him halfway by convincing him that the effort was worth making. what you don't seem to understand is the mindset, which society does a good job of perpetuating in a lot of ways, that convinces a person that scholarships and playing "house" don't make a better life for him. yes, it takes personal drive, and i'll grant you there's not a lot of that in inner cities; but if you grew up in that situation, where you WEREN'T being told by your folks (if you had folks) "you can be anything you want", but were probably constantly told (and witnessed) the opposite, maybe you'd understand why all the inertia. in any case, a wise CO once explained to me how good leadership isn't getting people to do what they don't want to - it's CONVINCING them that it's in their interest to do it.

idealistic, but hey, that's our charge as officers AND citizens. either you feel like you should try harder to help folks help themselves or you don't. there's a middle path between the miserly ceo and the nutso socialist - but on our basic duty to do what we can for each other, i don't see much gray area there.

show me your WAARRRR face!

 

[jaerose]

Actually, I mentioned Whitewater. I was wondering what everyone here thought of documentary film maker Michael Moore? Just curious and I like reading everyone's replies!

JR

 

[vegita1220]

wildflyin u from NYC?
What HS did you go to man?

Anyway, why y'all arguing about this politico stuff?

"Ours is but to do and die, not to reason why."

Cliche, but it's a lot truer than you think. And the fact is, most politicians(I've worked for a Dem Congressman, and a buddy for a Rep NYC mayoral candidate) but they'll all do what it takes to get more votes guys.

 

[kimphil]

Must've been that "vast right-wing conspiracy" that pulled him through the whole way. You want to question his behavior in times past, but in a later post, you want everyone to lay off the Clintons because they were cleared in the Whitewater probe. First, no one mentioned the Clintons being investigated, I have to assume you're just baiting for an argument. Bait taken. Second, the "double standard" of criticizing politicians we don't like keeps getting brought up. However, you tell us to lay off the Clintons because they've been cleared (on everything except lying to a grand jury) as you criticize Bush when he's never been convicted of any wrong doing. Heck, nobody even got on the Clintons here. So which is it? Criticize the ones we don't like or none of them at all? Whichever one is most convenient for your next argument, I suppose. It remains my firm belief that personal attacks in regards to the activities of the Commander in Chief are very inappropriate for anyone who is within or anticipates to be within his chain of command.

Like jaerose said, he brought up the subject of Whitewater. As far criticizing the President, I'll continue to exercise my God-given right to bad mouth George W. until the government gives me a commission or it sends one of its black helicopters after me.

Must've been that "vast right-wing conspiracy" that pulled him through the whole way.

Well the American people didn't elect George Bush, the Supreme Court did, 5-4 in correspondence to their political loyalties.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mongol General: ...Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

 

[kimphil]

Originally posted by UInavy
Maybe I need a refresher, but where is criticism of the president a "God-given" right? You're attempting to be an officer, right? Do you go around smoking weed, never working out for the PFT, and listening to punk rock music? Okay, so I added that last one in for a little fun. My point is: If you really want to be an officer, try and act like one for a little while. If you can't, maybe its not for you.

Sidenote: The government doesn't "give" commissions. They're earned.

Freedom of speech is based on the notion of natural law; simply put its a "God-given right." Of course leftist types like me must smoke weed, listen to punk music and have blue (or green) colored hair. We also wear Birkenstocks and hemp clothing and only eat organic food. No wait, I listen to punk music, that must make me a Goth, with fake vampire teeth and black fingernail polish. In any case, with my 285+ PFT, I'm sure I'd have no trouble PTing your nasty navy butt

into the ground regardless of how I look.

As far as acting like an officer, this issue has been discussed ad nauseum. I'm not in the military, the UCMJ doesn't apply to me and pretending I like the President isn't going to make me more presentable as an officer. Remember, my political viewpoints are the least of my problems considering all the dope I smoke.

BTW, you are right. The government doesn't give commissions. They are earned. Your'e a regular William Safire. I'll make that correction now.

As far criticizing the President, I'll continue to exercise my God-given right to bad mouth George W. until the government gives earns
me a commission or it sends one of its black helicopters after me.

Now that makes a lot of sense.

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Mongol General: ...Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

 

[jaerose]

kimphil,

Wow, you've got some bite to ya, huh? I like it though...makes for interesting reading. I was wondering, are you in the application process for a program? If so, are you applying USN or USMC? What are you trying to do and where'd you go to school? Sorry that this isn't political and argumentative, but I'm just curious. Oh, before I forget...who does your hair and who's your dealer J/K

JR

BTW, would you actually know if the government was chasing you with one of their black helicopters?

JR

 

[room5047]

JR - Mike Moore is a big fat whiny idiot who makes far too much money doing his thing. And that's coming from a bleeding heart. I'd like to see him in a steel cage death match with Bill O'Reilly, where the winner likewise receives a bullet in the head.

UINavy - So, in "preparing other facets of my life to resemble those of an officer", I should turn my politics around 180 degrees, start watching "the No Spin Zone", and email Hillary jokes to all my shipmates? Which part of "honor, courage, and commitment" mandates ideological orthodoxy in servicepeople?

Granted that screaming "Bush is a friggin moron" would be idiotic, pointless and unbecoming behavior (even though, as I've said, Clinton-bashing has always been vogue in the barracks); but the thing that scares hell out of me and my comrade, the cheese-eating surrender monkey, is that critically and substantively assessing the merits and demerits of current policies in ANY language seems to draw the charge from folks like you that we are overtly trashing the CinC and the nation. Just the same way that anybody who questions any little aspect of the way our executive branch wages the War on Terruh is lambasted as un-American and unpatriotic.

Sorry, but that's a steaming pile of crap that never seems to lose its heat.

There's a perfectly navigable middle path - albeit an admittedly fine and delicate one - whereby one can privately debate the wisdom of policy and still unflinchingly execute said policy in the course of one's professional duties.

Just don't tell me that intelligently taking issue with the foreign policy objectives and strategies of the current administration is in the same category as flinging poo at the President or burning the national colors! Besides being bald ideological bluster, that's the sort of mindset that never assesses itself critically or admits, and learns from, its mistakes - a mindset that is not only patently un-American but danged counterproductive in fighting the battles that face us as a country these days. It's just about right if you're planning to go land a MEF in Vietnam sometime soon, but try thinking out of that box if you want to win the postmodern fights we're into now - and if you want to minimize their outbreak in the future.

show me your WAARRRR face!

show me your WAARRRR face!

 

[room5047]

hee hee - cheese eating surrender monkey - that was a fellow naval academy alum who made that one up. damn, but some o dem right wingers are hilarious.

man i hope i go to ocs with some of youze guys - this'll make some great bar talk in town.

JR - aren't you shipping soon? what's up with that?

show me your WAARRRR face!

 

[NuSnake]

I am a badass.....I argue about politics on an internet forum.....what happened to the damn Naval Aviation website that I joined?????

If a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his ass all the time

 

[NuSnake]

haha..nah man...I dont care...I just think its funny when ppl start gettin all fired up because of it, keep on goin fellas, more for me to read while im sittin here doin nothin, but if there were beers to be had somehow over the internet when all this is discussed...man count me in...where do I sign up???

By the way...I think kimphil is nuts, I get a kick out of readin his stuff...well I guess its time to get back to watchin a little more FNC, Hannity, O'Riley...they're cool

If a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his ass all the time

 

[jaerose]

room5047,

I definitely agree with you about Michael Moore. Although his intentions are good, I think his efforts are misguided. As for shipping, I got my orders last week. I'm driving down to p-cola around July 27, or so. I start on August 2, but I want to get down there and get a mini-vacation before OCS starts. I'm sure I'll get extra attention from my DI because I'm one of those 'heavy' guys, meaning that if I weighed what the Navy said I should weigh then I'd probably be at about 2-3% bodyfat, which isn't so healthy. I'm going to try and be as skinny as possible when I get there, though. Maybe I'll go on a pre-OCS crash diet that will make me lose a bunch of muscle mass...nah, that won't be a good idea either.

JR

 

[NuSnake]

I dont get up early enough to watch fox and friends...haha, except when I have an exam

If a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his ass all the time

 

[wildflyin69]

I must honestly say that kimphil's been keeping this site interesting...

"Push the stick foward, the houses get bigger; pull back, the houses get smaller... unless you keep pulling back, then they get bigger again."

 

[trt23]

just for the record "cheese-eating surrender monkey" is a simpson's quote