Russian Ammo Thread

[statesman]

I looked through several of the other ammo threads and ran across some opinions on Russian (specifically Wolf) Ammunition.

I have shot commie (Romanian Soviet bloc era) ammo before through my Mosin, but that's a $65 gun, and shooting anything less than commie ammo would be an insult to the Mosin.

But my question pertains to the .223 ammo sold in the US these days. I haven't done enough research, just some poking around but wanted to find out if there were any horror stories about using Russian ammo in ARs.

That lacquer just makes me uncomfortable, especially in a direct impingement weapon.

 

[eas7888]

I looked through several of the other ammo threads and ran across some opinions on Russian (specifically Wolf) Ammunition.

I have shot commie (Romanian Soviet bloc era) ammo before through my Mosin, but that's a $65 gun, and shooting anything less than commie ammo would be an insult to the Mosin.

But my question pertains to the .223 ammo sold in the US these days. I haven't done enough research, just some poking around but wanted to find out if there were any horror stories about using Russian ammo in ARs.

That lacquer just makes me uncomfortable, especially in a direct impingement weapon.

The lacquer coated ammo SHOULD make you uncomfortable. I bought about 2000rds of wolf ammo on the cheap. I have an AR and a Saiga that fire .223. The AR will fire about 2-3 mags of the stuff, and then the lacquer on the rounds basically turns to glue in the chamber.There are times where I've had to kick the charging handle just to clear out my lacquer coated rounds.

My advice, if you have an AR, stick to the slightly more expensive stuff. I bought some Remington PMC from Cabelas, and that stuff works wonderfully. I can sit there and run through 10 mags of the stuff on semi, or bump firing, without a problem.

 

[LFDtoUSMC]

I have used Wolf exclusively in my AK's without any problem.

I have used US made exclusively in my AR without any problems.

That has just been my experience, and I have never heard of good things coming from using Wolf in AR platforms.

I think A4's said a while back in another gun thread (paraphrased); "Commie guns are designed to eat Commie ammo, American guns are designed to eat American ammo."

Hope that helps.

 

[gaijin6423]

No real experience with it, other than prying one of my Lieutenant's AR apart for him right before I got out. The thing was so filled with crud that we had to take it to the armory and dunk it, just to get the bolt carrier out of it. Hard to say if it was *just* the Wolf and Brown Bear he had been shooting through it lately, because he hadn't cleaned it. Ever.

Once we got it scrubbed down, the barrel was pitted, the extractor (I'm assuming foam the steel casings) was beat to shit, and he spent some cash buying replacement parts.

On the other hand, I know people who will run Wolf through every firearm they own with no issues. Personally, I think that I'll stick with reloading to cut costs.

 

[Rocketman]

I'll get in a bit of trouble here with the traditionalists but I shoot Wolf ammo in my ARs. Not all the time, but any time I'm going to shoot a lot and know I won't be able to pick up the brass I consider shooting it. Would I shoot it if I payed several hundred dollars to shoot in a class? Probably not. In a local 3 gun match or when I'm just out blasting? Absolutely.

There is a lot of miss information out there about Wolf ammo. It hasn't come lacquer coated in a long time. (it hasn't been that way for several years in fact) Wolf ammo today comes with a polymer coating that is much better and is visibly different than the old stuff. That said I shot 200 rounds of old lacquer coated Wolf ammo a couple of months ago and had no trouble with it. I never have.

IMHO what causes potential problems is the steel case, not the lacquer coating. Brass casings expand to seal the chamber when fired. Steel cases don't. This means when you shoot any steel cased ammo your chamber gets dirty faster. If you have a tight chamber (some are tighter than others ie RRA's Wylde chamber etc) and don't clean it, eventually you will have problems with failure to extract stoppages. If you don't clean the chamber you can absolutely have problems when you follow Wolf with brass cases. Tight chamber or not the brass cases will expand in a dirty chamber and sometimes stick.

I've never seen the lacquer coating on Wolf ammo "melt" and cause stoppages. I'm pretty sure that's internet lore. In-fact I've heard of blow torches being applied to lacquer cases without it melting. I know you can run an AK with old Wolf ammo until the wooden handguard catches on fire and you won't have any FTE's. It's the chamber not the ammo. If you see some redish gunk when cleaning your rifle that's the sealant on the primer not melted laquer.

If you want to shoot Wolf just be sure and clean your chamber well after you shoot it. Know that there are a few rifles out there that don't like it but IMHO that has more to do with tight chambers than ammo. If you want to shoot a lot of Wolf (or any steel cased ammo) be sure you are shooting a true 5.56 chamber and keep your chamber clean and you won't have any problems.

 

[Tex_Hill]

Take a look at this short piece on using Wolf ammo. How to Run Wolf Ammo in the AR15/M4

 

[Rocketman]

Take a look at this short piece on using Wolf ammo. How to Run Wolf Ammo in the AR15/M4

That's a great link with lots of good info. (not just about ammo)

 

[statesman]

There is a lot of miss information out there about Wolf ammo. It hasn't come lacquer coated in a long time. (it hasn't been that way for several years in fact) Wolf ammo today comes with a polymer coating that is much better and is visibly different than the old stuff.

This confirms a suspicion I had. Someone had told me that they got rid of the lacquer a long time ago. I opened a box of wolf at a store the other day and while I could tell the bronze "spray tan" was gone, I could still tell that something was there. Good info thanks Rocketman.

@Tex_Hill thanks for the link.

 

[eas7888]

This confirms a suspicion I had. Someone had told me that they got rid of the lacquer a long time ago. I opened a box of wolf at a store the other day and while I could tell the bronze "spray tan" was gone, I could still tell that something was there. Good info thanks Rocketman.

@Tex_Hill thanks for the link.

... and to be fair, the Wolf I have is the lacquer coated stuff. I bought it off of someone else, who had it for awhile.

As far as the lacquer issue, I don't know what the problem would be, if not the lacquer melting. The problem only seems to occur AFTER my rifle heats up, and if I leave a round chambered for a few minutes before firing. Eh, doesn't really matter much to me any longer, as mentioned, I've only been running Remington through it as of late.

 

[Boomhower]

I've used Wolf ammo in my Mini-14 and have pretty consistent problems with jamming. It's almost like it doesn't have enough oomph to cycle the action all the way through.

On Russian ammo as a whole: I got a new Savage .308 bolt action a few years ago. When I was sighting it in, I figured I would use this cheap Russian crap to get it on paper, then use the good stuff to really zero it down. First round: On paper. I was pleased. Tried to cycle to bolt. No joy. The damn casing expanded and got stuck. I had to take it to a gunsmith to get the damn thing out. Ruined my whole trip because I thought that I had broken my brand new toy.

Lesson learned: Don't use shitty Russian ammo in a bolt action.

 

[Rocketman]

I've used Wolf ammo in my Mini-14 and have pretty consistent problems with jamming. It's almost like it doesn't have enough oomph to cycle the action all the way through.

Wolf ammo is known to be underpowered so that could be true. I don't think I've ever shot wolf in a mini-14 although when my kids were young we shot a mini quite a bit. Mine was always finicky with anything but factory mags. Fun little weapon.

 

[Boomhower]

...mini-14 .... Fun little weapon.

Agreed. Perfect ranch rifle. Small, fits under the seat of a truck and just powerful enough for just about any varmint/predator you might run into in my part of the country. No bears here in West Texas.

I'm not really an AR kind of guy, so the Mini fills any need I have for rapid fire, semi-auto action. My dad bought a ton of Wolf ammo at a gun show a while back and I'm yet to shoot it all.

 

[A4sForever]

Barnaul, Altai region, Russia = Barnaul & Bear ** I've had good results with this stuff **
Tula Cartridge works, Tula, Russia = Wolf
Ulyanovsk Cartridge Works, Ulyanovsk Province, Russia = Uly & Bear ** I like this stuff best** ... it seems to be 'cleaner'
Vympel Enterprise, Amursk, Russia = Golden Tiger

Read the 'input' from reviews on Cheaper Than Dirt ... it's all over the map, but it gives you a sense of guys' experiences with the different brands.

Rocket's right ... the 'problem' w/ Commie ammo in an AR style platform (and some others) is not the 'coating' ... it's the steel case. It doesn't expand like brass to provide a better 'seal' in the chamber, thus it allows more powder (which is dirty anyway) to build up, eventually causing problems w/ feed and/or ejection.

Some guys think shooting MIL-Spec GI ball ammo after a session of Dirty-Commie ammo is a partial 'fix' to barrel cleaning -- good luck; I don't know about that -- never experimented with it. Again, I shoot Commie ammo in Commie guns and 'good' ammo in USGI/NATO style platforms. I clean them all. It seems to work for me ...

If you want 'clean' or 'accurate' ... don't buy the cheap Commie stuff. If price or plinking is your main concern and interest, rock on and buy it/shoot it. Just be aware of the potential problems with firearms that have tighter 'tolerances' than your garden variety AK/SKS.

 

[Rocketman]

Agreed. Perfect ranch rifle. Small, fits under the seat of a truck and just powerful enough for just about any varmint/predator you might run into in my part of the country. No bears here in West Texas.

I'm not really an AR kind of guy, so the Mini fills any need I have for rapid fire, semi-auto action. My dad bought a ton of Wolf ammo at a gun show a while back and I'm yet to shoot it all.

What kind of mags are you using? If hi cap (factory or otherwise) you might consider down loading them to maybe 15 rounds in a 20 round mag. Sometimes a fully loaded mag will provide more friction while feeding the round than the action can overcome. You could always consider fooling around with the recoil spring too but I'm not sure I would modify the weapon just to shoot wolf (or any low powered round).

I really enjoyed the mini I used to shoot with my kids. Ours was not very accurate but was a great blaster. I wouldn't mind having one of the new one's with the stiffer 16" barrel but they are almost as expensive as an AR in todays market. I still have an old one with the wooden handguard that makes it look like a Garand. Never shot it though.

Anyways back to Wolf......

 

[jbuck387]

I use Russian cheap-o Commie ammo in my Mosin and an AR I built in 5.45x39. I personally have had zero problems. I'm using the bulk spam-can corrosive primer rounds. The casing *should* not cause any problems, but the ammo is extremely dirty. Even when I run brown bear or wolf through my AR I always follow up with a very indepth cleaning. Here is what I do, take it or leave it but I've put over 2,000 rounds of Bulgarian ex-Soviet ammo into my AR, after shooting as soon as I get home I mix a bucket with 2/3 HOT water and 1/3 ammonia. Carefully using a funnel I pour some of the mixture down the barrel. After that I break down the bolt and all the upper receiver parts and dump them in the bucket. Then I clean the inside of the upper with a toothbrush and the ammonia mixture. It has worked like a charm, zero corrosion, zero gunk. Good luck and enjoy the cheap ammo.