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Rumsfeld response

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gagirl

Registered User
What?? :confused: I am glad you explained all of that I've been looking at that all day. Do you have too much time on your hands? Just kidding.

FLY NAVY-If your referring to the Bulge comment to me I was not offended. I agree with you. I was crazy to think that we had learned from past mistakes. I just wish there was more I could do to help our troops and I think they way Rumsfeld handled the question was wrong.

-anne
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
gagirl said:
What?? :confused: I am glad you explained all of that I've been looking at that all day. Do you have too much time on your hands? Just kidding.

FLY NAVY-If your referring to the Bulge comment to me I was not offended. I agree with you. I was crazy to think that we had learned from past mistakes. I just wish there was more I could do to help our troops and I think they way Rumsfeld handled the question was wrong.

-anne

No, if I made the picture, THEN I would have too much time on my hands. :) Wait, I'm a pool student who doesn't start until February. Yes, I actually DO have too much time on my hands.

No, the Bulge comment wasn't aimed at anyone, like I said. It was just a reference point.
 
Fly Navy said:
Ok, here we go:

Ever play online games? Or ever run into kids who think they are hackers? There is a group on the internet, mostly comprised of young kids, like pre-teens and teens. They're annoying and think it is cool to speak L33T. L33T is "elite". The 3's represent E's. These kids use different characters to represent letters. Say, H@X0R. That would be a "hacker". SUX0R is the same. "Sucks".

Basically, they think they are elite, special, hot sh!t, whatever. They annoy the piss out of me. I think it's funny to make fun of them. That's why I have L33T cereal up there. The picture came from a photoshop contest on www.somethingawful.com

Basically, every Friday, they have Photoshop Phriday. That week was cereal boxes. The person made L33T cereal to make fun of these kids who act like morons online. You kind of have to have been exposed to their "culture" to get the joke. It's just a big joke on them. Cause they're morons.

To translate my signature:

"EAT L33T!!11" is "Eat Elite!!" The "!!11" is multiple exclamation marks (another thing they do) and the 1's are them forgetting to hold SHIFT.

"OATMEAL IS TEH SUX!!!111" is "Oatmeal really sucks." Whenever you see "teh" from say, me, it's on purpose. It's making fun of their fast typing and making mistakes. Saying "teh sux" means something really sucks.

The other one says "Overclock your breakfast". Basically, you can overclock your computer to make it faster than designed. You can make your 1.7 GHz and jump it to 2.0 GHz with some tweaking. It's just a reference to the computer world.

Best example would be the still-popular Counterstrike...It's hilarious.
 

Squid

F U Nugget
pilot
don't play CS, but I assume they still use 1337 5p34k? jesus, that **** pissed me off on other boards I would frequent. teh sux0r
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
ENSsquid said:
don't play CS, but I assume they still use 1337 5p34k? jesus, that **** pissed me off on other boards I would frequent. teh sux0r

Counter-Strike sucks. I never liked it.

I really don't like l33t speak, but I love L33t cereal.
 

Banjo33

AV-8 Type
pilot
Rumsfeld
said the Army was pushing manufacturers of vehicle armor to produce it as fast as humanly possible.

You've also got to understand that all of this gear costs a LOT of money (bullet proof vests, vehicle armor, etc) that the DoD doesn't have. The sad fact is, the military will NEVER have the latest and greatest gear/gadgetry that's available to the general public because we can't afford it. I would expect to have to purchase my own bulletproof vest, just as I would expect the need to purchase decent socks, foot powder, and bugspray.
I think Rumsfeld answered as honestly as possible without sugar coating it. I think those guys really went out on a limb by questioning him so blatantly.....and they really put him on the spot. In my opinion being a little insubordinate in the process.
 

Alex

Registered User
Good post, jboomer
jboomer said:
You've also got to understand that all of this gear costs a LOT of money (bullet proof vests, vehicle armor, etc) that the DoD doesn't have. The sad fact is, the military will NEVER have the latest and greatest gear/gadgetry that's available to the general public because we can't afford it.
It’s not that the DOD doesn’t have money, it’s just that the policy makers in the DOD (together with Congress) have decided to spend that money on things other than protective armor. Of course, allocating more money toward protective armor means something else isn’t funded at its present level. Determining what the priorities are is the underlying issue (and I won't weigh in on whether those priorities are correct).

I would expect to have to purchase my own bulletproof vest, just as I would expect the need to purchase decent socks, foot powder, and bugspray.
Just curious as to where you personally draw the line in this regard. Are there other survival items that you don’t expect the military to provide?

I know throughout history, soldiers have equipped themselves with non-issue gear. It would be interesting to learn whether this occurs to a greater degree now than in the past, especially with the proliferation of low cost, small gadgets.

I think Rumsfeld answered as honestly as possible without sugar coating it. I think those guys really went out on a limb by questioning him so blatantly.....and they really put him on the spot. In my opinion being a little insubordinate in the process.
You have a good point here. This sort of complaint/question should really be coming from high-level officers, after it has been bumped up the chain-of-command. But that raises numerous speculative questions. Did these guys deliberately avoid using the chain-of-command? Did they try using the chain-of-command more than a year ago and haven’t gotten a satisfactory answer and so resorted to a more direct approach?
 

helmet91

contemplating applying again...
concerning the body armor... i think starting next year the DoD will reimburse you for any purchase made since 9/11.
 

helmet91

contemplating applying again...
VarmintShooter said:
Where did you get that info?

it might have been on military.com- i was looking for new BAH info and I saw a list of sorts on what benefits would be available starting 1-1-05... armor reimbusement was one of them. lemme see if i can find it again.

*found it... http://usmilitary.about.com/od/militarypay/a/2005authact.htm
What Congress has in Store for Military Members in 2005.

Body Armor Reimbursement. After 9/11, and continuing into the Iraq invasion, many military members purchased their own body armor to make up for military shortages. The new law requires the Department of Defense to reimburse military members or their families and friends for such purchases. To be eligible for reimbursement, the equipment must have been purchased between September 11, 2001, and July 31, 2004. The maximum reimbursement is $1,100 per item, and it must be certified as being critical to the "health, protection, or safety" of the military member. Additionally, the item had to be unavailable for military issue. If DoD provides reimbursement, they are authorized to take ownership of the item.


Rummy's response to yesterday's questions:
NEW DELHI, India — A day after being challenged by a soldier on the Army's failure to provide adequate armor for vehicles used in Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld (search) said Thursday he was pleased to hear the gripe and expects the Army to do its best to resolve the problem.

"I think it's good" that ordinary soldiers are given a chance to express their concerns to the secretary of defense and senior military commanders, Rumsfeld told reporters during a visit to the Indian capital.

"It's necessary for the Army to hear that, do something about it and see that everyone is treated properly," Rumsfeld said, referring not only to the complaint about insufficient armor but also another soldier's statement about not getting reimbursed for certain expenses in a timely way.

Those complaints, and others, were aired on Wednesday when Rumsfeld held a "town hall" style meeting with about 2,300 soldiers at Camp Buehring in northern Kuwait (search), a transit camp for troops heading into Iraq (search).

Spc. Thomas Wilson had asked Rumsfeld, "Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles?" Shouts of approval and applause arose from other soldiers who had assembled in an aircraft hangar to see Rumsfeld.


Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question.

"We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north," Wilson, 31, of Nashville, Tenn., concluded after asking again.

"You go to war with the Army you have," Rumsfeld replied, "not the Army you might want or wish to have."

Asked on Thursday about that exchange, the defense secretary said he believed the session in general was "very fine, warm (and) enjoyable." As for Wilson's statement, Rumsfeld said it could be constructive.

"I don't know what the facts are, but somebody is certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know," Rumsfeld said.

Rumsfeld gave no indication that the soldier would face any kind of disciplinary action for speaking up. Indeed, the defense secretary said he found it healthy for soldiers to feel free to express their views.

He also said military vehicles that go into Iraq without full armor are used only inside U.S. compounds, rather than used on street patrols where they are vulnerable to roadside bombs. And he said those vehicles without full armor are moved into Iraq on transport vehicles rather than being driven.

More broadly, Rumsfeld said people should understand that the military has done all that can reasonably be expected to adjust to changing circumstances in Iraq as the insurgents have refined their tactics.

"That is the way war and insurgencies and combat operate," he said. "You go in, you have an enemy with a brain that does things, and then you make adjustments." He added, "Does everything happen instantaneously as the brain in the enemy sees things and makes changes? No, it doesn't happen instantaneously." But, he said, the Army has adjusted "pretty rapidly" to the evolving tactics of the insurgents, including the need to have more armor on vehicles like the Humvee.

Rumsfeld spoke after meeting Thursday with Indian Defense Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee. At the Ministry of Defense, Rumsfeld read a brief statement to reporters on U.S.-Indian military cooperation.

"The defense relationship is a strong one and something we intend to see is further knitted together as we go forward in the months and years ahead," he said.

Later he was meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and then flying back to Washington.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
I don't know. It could be that I'm just really sensitized to it now, but that really came across as kind of condescending. "Yeah, good on 'em for speaking up when they don't have enough armor. Good Army boys. Nice Army boys. We're proud of you. Now eat this cookie."

And again with the "It's necessary for the Army to hear that." Mr. Rumsfeld, you are the Army. And whether or not it's feasible to go into a conflict fully armed and armored, the DoD should never just brush off a complaint with "you pays your money and you takes your chances." I'd like to see a full transcript of that meeting to see if, at any point, Rumsfeld got around to saying, "Yes, we recognize that there is a problem there, and while we aren't going to be able to fix it immediately, these are the moves we're making to fix it in the future."
 

DCLegal

Rhino Pilot Wife
When I first heard about this, the first thing that popped into my mind was Band of Brothers and WWII, a time when soldiers did not have all the supplies they needed either, and a time in which we conserved and rationed. I understand that the wars and times are different, but it gets me thinking. Are we really doing everything that we can to resolve these situations?

It just sucks...I want our boys to have everything they need.
 

Banjo33

AV-8 Type
pilot
Just curious as to where you personally draw the line in this regard. Are there other survival items that you don’t expect the military to provide?

I just remember a time (in the not so distant past) where, as a grunt, we used pinecones as handgrenades and had to make our own machinegun sounds because my unit couldn't afford live ammo. We took money collections to buy batteries for our NVG's. I also spent two weeks digging through huge boxes of gear the Army Reservists had thrown out, looking for stuff we could use because the unit couldn't afford new stuff. Then again, this may be a Marine Corps problem and not a DoD problem.

You're right about the "allocation". Their were more important areas needing funding during that time and we made due with what we had and never missed an opportunity to train. I think they're doing the best the can with what they have. My gripes came in a time of peace....I think while we're on a war footing though, some of their "special" projects should be put on the back burner. And they may be for all know.
 
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