Rumsfeld response

[gagirl]

Did anyone else hear this on the news today?

Rumsfeld was in Iraq yesterday talking with troops and when a soldier asked him "why are we having to go through landfills to find the armor we need"?

Rumsfeld responded with "fight with the army you came with and not the one you want"! That is what the reporter said so there might be a few more words or something, but they had said he was very defensive when answering.

Is anybody as angry as I am? I personally feel that the gov't has had plenty of time to get some armor on these humvees and other APC's over there. There are so many amputees now and some of them might have been prevented.

I can't believe he spoke to this soldier this way. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but it was uncalled for. To me, that seems to be a slap in the face to those over there and the ones that have lost a limb or more.

I'm interested to see if anyone else heard this.

gagirl

 

[helmet91]

CAMP BUEHRING, Kuwait — Disgrunted U.S. soldiers complained to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld (search) on Wednesday about the lack of armor for their vehicles and long deployments, drawing a blunt retort from the Pentagon chief.

"You go to war with the Army you have," he said in a rare public airing of rank-and-file concerns among the troops.

In his prepared remarks earlier, Rumsfeld had urged the troops — mostly National Guard and Reserve soldiers — to discount critics of the war in Iraq (search) and to help "win the test of wills" with the insurgents.

Some of soldiers, however, had criticisms of their own — not of the war itself but of how it is being fought.

Army Spc. Thomas Wilson, for example, of the 278th Regimental Combat Team that is comprised mainly of citizen soldiers of the Tennessee Army National Guard, asked Rumsfeld in a question-and-answer session why vehicle armor is still in short supply, nearly two years after the start of the war that ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein .

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" Wilson asked. A big cheer arose from the approximately 2,300 soldiers in the cavernous hangar who assembled to see and hear the secretary of defense.


Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question.

"We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north," Wilson said after asking again.

Rumsfeld replied that troops should make the best of the conditions they face and said the Army was pushing manufacturers of vehicle armor to produce it as fast as humanly possible.

And, the defense chief added, armor is not always a savior in the kind of combat U.S. troops face in Iraq, where the insurgents' weapon of choice is the roadside bomb, or improvised explosive device that has killed and maimed hundreds, if not thousands, of American troops since the summer of 2003.

"You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up," Rumsfeld said.

Asked later about Wilson's complaint, the deputy commanding general of U.S. forces in Kuwait, Maj. Gen. Gary Speer, said in an interview that as far as he knows, every vehicle that is deploying to Iraq from Camp Buehring in Kuwait has at least "Level 3" armor. That means it at least has locally fabricated armor for its side panels, but not necessarily bulletproof windows or protection against explosions that penetrate the floorboard.

Speer said he was not aware that soldiers were searching landfills for scrap metal and used bulletproof glass.

During the question-and-answer session, another soldier complained that active-duty Army units sometimes get priority over the National Guard and Reserve units for the best equipment in Iraq.

"There's no way I can prove it, but I am told the Army is breaking its neck to see that there is not" discrimination against the National Guard and Reserve in terms of providing equipment, Rumsfeld said.

Yet another soldier asked, without putting it to Rumsfeld as a direct criticism, how much longer the Army will continue using its "stop loss" power to prevent soldiers from leaving the service who are otherwise eligible to retire or quit.

Rumsfeld said that this condition was simply a fact of life for soldiers at time of war.

"It's basically a sound principle, it's nothing new, it's been well understood" by soldiers, he said. "My guess is it will continue to be used as little as possible, but that it will continue to be used."

In his opening remarks, Rumsfeld stressed that soldiers who are heading to Iraq should not believe those who say the insurgents cannot be defeated or who otherwise doubt the will of the military to win.

"They say we can't prevail. I see that violence and say we must win," Rumsfeld said.

interesting... not exactly winning everyone over is he?

 

[Cate]

I loved how when the troops were actually looking for his support, it was "you can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can still be blown up," but at the end, as he tried to save a little face, suddenly it was "we must prevail" and "we must win."

 

[Fly Navy]

There is absolutely positively nothing new about armies going to war without all the gear they need. Anyone ever hear of World War II? Does Battle of the Bulge ring a bell?

That doesn't mean it's excusable. But don't be surprised.

Humvees were also never designed to be armored that way. We had a similiar problem in Mogadishu.

 

[sirenia]

He certainly doesn't help morale by being tactless.

 

[flynsail]

It seemed like a good response to me. Hard question to answer honestly w/o offending people.

 

[Clux4]

Have you every heard Donald Rumesfeld being apologetic or sorry in his press confrences. This guy will never publicly admit to the wrong. Why should he after all ?
Common fellows, everything is starting to get a little clearer here, we are all in for the long run. I mean the worst is yet to come. You talking about armour for tanks, did you not read about fathers sending bullet proof vest to theirs sons in Iraq as birthday present.

You gat to take courage, this is what you asked for. We are all in together.

 

[gagirl]

I guess I thought he could at least say something like "we're working on it or we need to work on it etc." I think I've heard that they are working on it.

Having a History degree I have heard a little about the Battle of the Bulge. I just figured with the things we have learned in past wars and with the advance of technology we could have done this by now. How long has this war been going on? Production should be doubled to get these troops what they need. There are more amputees than there should be. Maybe we haven't learned things in past wars. I just wish I could do more for the men and women over there and it makes me mad when I hear people that can make a difference reply with the answers he did.

I have heard of parents sending their sons metal and bullet proof vests. That's disgraceful with what we have in this country. Our military should have all resources available. I know that's a dream, but it shouldn't be.

I agree he's not getting many warm and fuzzy points.

 

[thumper]

I disagree with the attitude, reaction and response of said individuals. I would have acted in an entirely different manner. Pure and simple.

 

[peanut3479]

I read a news article a while back (probably a year or so ago, perhaps longer) about the DoD increasing its orders for factory-armored HMMWVs from something like 25% of all orders to around 60 or 70%, and that AM General was struggling to get enough armor-quality metal or whatever they use to produce them as "armored" units instead of standard units. The increase in civilian-ordered Hummers, and their accompanying profit margain as opposed to the DoD variants, had also bit into the production a bit. I have no idea where to find this (or a similar) article, but that was the substance of it.

That being said, Rumsfeld typically is a bit more tactful when responding to valid criticisms, from what I've seen at least. I guess someone forgot to eat their L33T.

 

[thumper]

You're right. However...

I believe that there is no excuse why US soldiers lack something as basic as armor for their hummers (after two years of requests). Some people may be unimpressed with the reasons provided at the recent news event.

 

[airpirate25]

Peanut, you hit it on the head. WWII caught America off guard, and we bit the bullet, because a: the nation rationed food, leather and metal, etc..etc, and b. we fought a total war on the enemy held territory. No one ever went to war with everything they needed, but the folks back home weren't driving suburban assault vehicles and caryying three kinds of PDA's. BTW, it seems to me the goal in WWI and WWII was end the war as soon as possible, can anyone tell me they think we'll pull out when Iraq has elected a new leader?

 

[Fly Navy]

I hope no one missed the point of my post. I wasn't going after anyone in this thread. I was basically stating that I'm not surprised this happened.

And not eating L33T will make anyone grumpy.

 

[airpirate25]

FlyNavy, gotta ask...what's the thing with L33T!!11...it looks funny as hell, but what's the joke for us un-enlightened ones?

 

[Fly Navy]

FlyNavy, gotta ask...what's the thing with L33T!!11...it looks funny as hell, but what's the joke for us un-enlightened ones?

Ok, here we go:

Ever play online games? Or ever run into kids who think they are hackers? There is a group on the internet, mostly comprised of young kids, like pre-teens and teens. They're annoying and think it is cool to speak L33T. L33T is "elite". The 3's represent E's. These kids use different characters to represent letters. Say, H@X0R. That would be a "hacker". SUX0R is the same. "Sucks".

Basically, they think they are elite, special, hot sh!t, whatever. They annoy the piss out of me. I think it's funny to make fun of them. That's why I have L33T cereal up there. The picture came from a photoshop contest on www.somethingawful.com

Basically, every Friday, they have Photoshop Phriday. That week was cereal boxes. The person made L33T cereal to make fun of these kids who act like morons online. You kind of have to have been exposed to their "culture" to get the joke. It's just a big joke on them. Cause they're morons.

To translate my signature:

"EAT L33T!!11" is "Eat Elite!!" The "!!11" is multiple exclamation marks (another thing they do) and the 1's are them forgetting to hold SHIFT.

"OATMEAL IS TEH SUX!!!111" is "Oatmeal really sucks." Whenever you see "teh" from say, me, it's on purpose. It's making fun of their fast typing and making mistakes. Saying "teh sux" means something really sucks.

The other one says "Overclock your breakfast". Basically, you can overclock your computer to make it faster than designed. You can make your 1.7 GHz and jump it to 2.0 GHz with some tweaking. It's just a reference to the computer world.